Swapa/swa Ta

[Tejas-Jet]

My biggest issue?....Codeshare. Thats what lots of us are waiting for knowing what that can mean for the future of SWA.

Having said that, we still have some "koolies" out there that are more concerned with their "retro" checks than they are with the codeshare that will affect all of us forever. Stepping over dollars to get a few nickels.

We are staying stagnant, while 2 other carriers see growth by being associated with our name. Kind of a "Brad Pitt-Roseanne Barr" marriage, if you will.

This is not sitting well with lots of us.

While I do enjoy my job here...I also realize that this is no longer Herb's airline. Gary has been running the show for a long time, and it is different. Some of the pilots here have not yet realized that.

While Herb had a way of rallying the troops in the hard times, some of what I heard from Gary in his recent MTF's, disappointed me.

Herb made us want to go to war for him...Gary makes us want to hide in the closet and put a blanket over our heads...and hope for the best.

Hopefully I am wrong...but thats what I see. Hopefully Gary proves me wrong.

 

[eaglesview]

Not handy but give me a day or two and I'll find one of many articles in which Mr. Kelly speaks of "growth." He is on record saying WN will have 2 fewer hulls JANUARY 2011 than we do today. That's not good news for poolies and absolutely irks me that we are downsizing the fleet as we announce codeshare.

I was trying to be a "good boy" and not vent too loudly on a public forum but since I'm being labeled as a malcontent I might as well let it fly. It can be summed up in one sentence.

Codeshare will kill the Southwest Airlines we know today.

Someone said no to codeshare without triggers. I agree but who controls the triggers and what are they? If it is revenue OR load factor triggers those numbers can be easily manipulated by raising or lowering fares. Then what?

I wasn't trying to rain on your pool party. WN is, IMO, the best airline in the world. I love it here. I don't have fuselage envy, I have job protection and scope worries. Sometimes those emerge as lashing posts to unintended people.

My apologies to you but should know both sides of the story.

Gup

You are right on the money and should be worried. Take it from someone watching my airline UAL being outsourced more and more every day. We all joke that we used to have a place to eat called the United cafeteria at O' Hare. Today it is the RJ crew lounge.

Any money you give up to not have scope is worth it as the airline will stagnate at best. Even Southwest, which has had a history of good employee relations will get in bed with the lowest bidder.

On the bright side you would be able to have lunch in the cafeteria at work with all bright eyed "I can't believe I'm in a jet teenagers.'

 

[GFunk20]

We all joke that we used to have a place to eat called the United cafeteria at O' Hare. Today it is the RJ crew lounge.

On the bright side you would be able to have lunch in the cafeteria at work with all bright eyed "I can't believe I'm in a jet teenagers.'

That was me just last year! I enjoyed the mornings eating the omelets in the UA cafeteria. The turkey sandwich and beef stew was a good combo too. As well as all the dirty stares from mainline folks...

 

[AAflyer]

That was me just last year! I enjoyed the mornings eating the omelets in the UA cafeteria. The turkey sandwich and beef stew was a good combo too. As well as all the dirty stares from mainline folks...

Just wait till someday when a ER-170 in SWA colors pulls up, or some codeshare from Mexico... It will be just as funny!!!! Don't you think!!!

AA

 

[GFunk20]

Mexico sure, but I will bet you anything that our folks won't allow any domestic codeshare.

We've learned from the unfortunate mistakes of others on that.

 

[StopNTSing]

Mexico sure, but I will bet you anything that our folks won't allow any domestic codeshare.

We've learned from the unfortunate mistakes of others on that.

Bro, how about dialing down the hubris a notch or three. Until we see the final language of this AIP, I wouldn't be so sure about your above two prognostications. As Guppy and T-J mentioned earlier, GK's comments and his shifting positions leave me unconvinced that he's learned ANYTHING from the mistakes of others.

No Codeshare, period....or it's a no-vote from me!

 

[slaquer5]

Mexico sure, but I will bet you anything that our folks won't allow any domestic codeshare.

We've learned from the unfortunate mistakes of others on that.

I will take that bet what do you want to put on it

 

[PinnacleDude]

Mexico sure, but I will bet you anything that our folks won't allow any domestic codeshare.

We've learned from the unfortunate mistakes of others on that.

Actually, I have heard there may be a few exceptions to the rule, but will wait and see what the language says.

In addition, we are only one bad bankruptcy judge away from added domestic codeshare. I hope we never end up in that situation, but never is a long time.

As I recall the UAL/NWA/DAL guys all ended up with much of the RJ flying under duress.

 

[Bobby Orr 4]

No Codeshare, period....or it's a no-vote from me!

I agree with you. I have the no codeshare sticker on the old brain bag. One problem though. We already have codeshare via SL 32.
Say we vote this down. I would vote no on a contract that I feel is not in the most junior guys interest. We go to mediation. The mediator cannot keep codeshare out of the contract because it is already here.
We need protection and hard limitations on codeshare. Not a 5% growth target. Did not meet the target. Sorry we tried. Weak language in SL 32. Looking forward to seeing the TA if the BOD gets this one to us. To be continued...

 

[GFunk20]

Agreed. There really isn't much to discuss yet, but I do think they have good grip on the domestic stuff.
Keeping fingers crossed for whatever they decide in this meeting...

 

[radarlove]

Say we vote this down. I would vote no on a contract that I feel is not in the most junior guys interest. We go to mediation. The mediator cannot keep codeshare out of the contract because it is already here..

Mediators don't keep anything in or out of a contract, you're confusing the term mediator with arbitrator.

In your guys' situation, there is nothing for an arbitrator to do, since it sounds like there is nothing yet in your contract that addresses this stuff.

Mediators, as many of us have become painfully aware, have zero real power. They're good at allowing the company to drag out negotiations, though.

Maybe the new appointee to the NMB will make some difference.

Has LUV ever gone into mediation? I don't think you guys know what really happens. talk to some Airtran folks.

 

[Bobby Orr 4]

Not sure if we ever went to mediation. Thank you for the correction though. Just wanted to emphasize that codeshare is already in our contract. Seems to me once codeshare is in a contract it appears you have herpes. Here to stay. Hopefully we will have language to control and place hard limits on it. To be continued...

 

[radarlove]

Everyone seems to think that mediators are some sort of savior, really they're just one of the many pools of quicksand put in place by the government before unions are allowed to take job action. I don't consider mediators to be labor's friend.

Think about this, a normal union can strike any time its contract has expired. Of course a company can lock out the workers too.

But in our case, our contracts never expire (there goes that option), we have to be "released" by a mediator before we can take a job action, and of course, there's always the presidential board that can put a stop to a job action in a railroad or airline. I'm probably missing some other "circuit-breaker" in there somewhere.

Even arbitrators, the union's old friend seem to have gone off the deep end, think of the Alaska contract fiasco, or the AWA/USAir seniority list abortion.

I guess it's all for the best, strikes/job actions/lockouts aren't good for anybody, but still, the process certainly isn't stacked in our favor.

I know LUV isn't ALPA, but over here, ALPA doesn't seem to ever take a hard stance.

 

[radarlove]

I forgot the "cooling off period", and isn't there some sort of congressional intervention as well?

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Say we vote this down. I would vote no on a contract that I feel is not in the most junior guys interest. We go to mediation. The mediator cannot keep codeshare out of the contract because it is already here.

Mediation is not the "next step" if a contract is voted down. You just go back and negotiate some more. Mediation is what happens when the company and the union feel they aren't getting anywhere at the table.

Next time you fly, ask one of your F/A's what happened when they voted their contract down a few short years ago (also why Jim Parker isn't the CEO anymore)....or ask a mechanic.

Yes...the SWA Pilots have been in mediation in the past...but it has been many years since that happened.

Additionally, a large majority of our pilots have never been through a section 6, so there is some angst there among the "rookies", combined with the real threat in codeshare.

 

[radarlove]

that's the most common outcome of a failed TA, I think. The pilots say "Not good enough'', the company says, "We were being truthful, that's the best we can do...", and one of the two calls in a mediator to start things back up again.

But that means an instant delay of at least a year or probably two. That's why you really want your NC to bring you something the pilots can vote yes to, just ask Airtran.

 

[murano]

It's official. We now have a T/A. BoD members will see it on March 24th. If they approve it will be sent out to the membership.

PS: No codeshare!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Call the PD and ask them. I had heard they were all farmed out to different HDQ positions which if true, is not a good sign.

Last time I was at HQ, it was about 2 weeks ago, they were remodeling. The place is undergoing a facelift. The rumors will begin to fly when they get the place back up and running, as much as the actual room being up and running.

I have had numerous conversations with a couple of CP's about the whole swimming/having to reinterview issue. The ones I have talked to agree that it isn't the right way to do business, for what its worth.

Dick

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Mediation is not the "next step" if a contract is voted down. You just go back and negotiate some more. Mediation is what happens when the company and the union feel they aren't getting anywhere at the table.

Next time you fly, ask one of your F/A's what happened when they voted their contract down a few short years ago (also why Jim Parker isn't the CEO anymore)....or ask a mechanic.

Yes...the SWA Pilots have been in mediation in the past...but it has been many years since that happened.

Additionally, a large majority of our pilots have never been through a section 6, so there is some angst there among the "rookies", combined with the real threat in codeshare.

Not flamin', just curious Tejas - what section 6 experience do you have - I see you are a frequent poster, so just wondering?

 

[radarlove]

I don't want to pile on, but "You just go back and negotiate some more" does not really fit into the framework of negotiations...if both NCs come to a final agreement, then the negotiations are over.

If you could just go back and get that last shiny penny that you think got left behind, there would never be an end to negotiations.

A failing vote for a T.A. is a lot more traumatic than a quick run back to the negotiating table.

Are you saying that your flight attendants actually turned down a T.A.? I never heard of that happening, was it more than 10 years ago?