SWAPA Comments about 717

[Kharma Police]

No question he had to mislead both sides to get this done.

Our NC/SWAPA is telling us the AAI side was aware that the 717s could go away at any time...

I believe it was always a possibility that SLI 9 had accounted for, the whole captain retention slot thingy. Big Sis, Slick, Chuckle Head and the other 4 geniuses in our union I guess couldn't comprehend that.

 

[fam62c]

Hey guys. Tweet could have probably said this more tactfully, but the fact of the matter is he's right and truth hurts. I'm tired of hearing the term merger, it was an acquisition and nothing less. We all know there is a difference. I am staring at a 20 year upgrade in the face but there's nothing you or I can do about it except hope that things will work out. After this, I have approximately 1300 extra pilots above me. Getting displaced as a result of this is what concerns me the most. We are all now on the same team... pilots, trying to support our families. Good luck to us all.

-Ten

I'm so tired of this BS, point to some examples of mergers in the industry where there was not an aquiring party? Now tell me about the "difference" between a merger and an aquisition "we all know" about. Pretty much every merger has been an aquisition, the terms are interchangeable.

Call it what you like, this was a combination of two solvent, unionized major airlines flying comparable equipment and the SW pilots got the best seniority deal anybody has every gotten in that situation, it was unprecedented. Your management team pointed a gun at the AT guys and got you a great deal, good for you, what more do you want? A bunch more upgrades so a lot of your senior FO's will upgrade well before they ever would have without AT?..........you got that too and I'll bet those guys won't be complaining when they cash their CA paychecks.

 

[madjack]

AAI seniority ceased to exists the minute the airline was bought...that is a fact...every airline that SWA acquired prior to AAI, the pilots of the acquired airline started at the bottom...AA screws STL (and the TWA pilots) and we get a law...SWA buys AAI and mgmt and both unions overwhelmingly approve a SLI that gives former AAI pilots seniority on the SWA MSL...many AAI pilots go ahead of SWA pilots who interviewed, got typed and started at the bottom at SWA (some of those pilots were former AAI CPs and FOs)...so who is getting "screwed"?

 

[FlyinGuy]

Sniff....sniff....

It is over guys! I don't care where you were before the "announcement". The deal is done and the list is what it is. Many AT guys feel slighted and many SWA f/o's feel the same way. It sucks!!! The question is what type of person are you? Do you have any character? What are you going to do when you are conversing or flying with someone from the other side?

We are all pawns in this game. Hopefully GK and his minions can get their act together and make this a great place for all of us.

 

[scoreboardII]

hopefully the pilots will realize we need to stick together cause it's only going to get worse once Gary realizes he screwed the pooch overpaying for his misadventure. Then he'll come asking us to pay for that mistake, above and beyond what we already have, to wit, we must stand firm and say FUGK.

 

[THEPRFCT10]

I'm so tired of this BS, point to some examples of mergers in the industry where there was not an aquiring party? Now tell me about the "difference" between a merger and an aquisition "we all know" about. Pretty much every merger has been an aquisition, the terms are interchangeable.

Call it what you like, this was a combination of two solvent, unionized major airlines flying comparable equipment and the SW pilots got the best seniority deal anybody has every gotten in that situation, it was unprecedented. Your management team pointed a gun at the AT guys and got you a great deal, good for you, what more do you want? A bunch more upgrades so a lot of your senior FO's will upgrade well before they ever would have without AT?..........you got that too and I'll bet those guys won't be complaining when they cash their CA paychecks.

"Unprecedented!??? ", "... Best seniority deal...!??? " I beg to differ. I gained ABSOLUTELY NOTHING FROM SL10. As did many JR SWA guys like myself. I was willing to risk arbitration just because I could not agree to screw our JR guys. I was never convinced we would go to arbitration. Naive? Maybe, but it was a risk I was willing to take. Merger vs Acquisition? Whatever man, GK very well could have just taken the assets, ATL, etc. and ultimately dissolved Air Tran. We'll never know if he would've really done that but that's not the point. Many of us (SWA & AAI alike) got screwed the day GK decided to do this, now he makes another decision and many AT guys are getting "screwed". Sorry, it sucks for us "all". It's hard not to be bitter about this, but we have to hope it'll be okay.

 

[Old Crow]

Airtran emotion can really can be summed up like this. I was excited, I was then educated, I was disappointed, I overcame, I was renewed, I bought the Flag tie from our new CP in ATL, I wore it, I got SC's email. I tossed my new tie in the trash...

 

[THEPRFCT10]

Airtran emotion can really can be summed up like this. I was excited, I was then educated, I was disappointed, I overcame, I was renewed, I bought the Flag tie from our new CP in ATL, I wore it, I got SC's email. I tossed my new tie in the trash...

It sucks all around...sorry.

 

[freightdogfred]

Correct me if I'm wrong....but does not the 500 series B737 have about the same amount of seats as the 717? How can this old airframe be more economical to operate than the 717?

The 717 may be a white elephant, but I'd be willing to bet Big D got some sweetheart lease rates. They got plenty-o-Douglas parts layin around, so good for them. Rumor is GK is payin them to take the airplanes. Who the hell knows, who the hell cares.

 

[freightdogfred]

Lets all hope when the 717's are transferred...no WN pilot is harmed.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Correct me if I'm wrong....but does not the 500 series B737 have about the same amount of seats as the 717? How can this old airframe be more economical to operate than the 717?

The 717 may be a white elephant, but I'd be willing to bet Big D got some sweetheart lease rates. They got plenty-o-Douglas parts layin around, so good for them. Rumor is GK is payin them to take the airplanes. Who the hell knows, who the hell cares.

If you're really looking for a serious answer in this, here it is: The 737-500 is more economcal to operate than the 717 because they are not leased. They are long since paid for. As long as the maintenance costs don't exceed operating revenue (so far), then they make money. And since we have the world's largest stockpile of 737 classic parts, and similar maintenance schedules to the rest of our planes, it'll be that way for a while.

Bubba

 

[freightdogfred]

Not to flame, but which model of those classics is the one that peels back the roof?

 

[redflyer65]

300. They've been re-crowned. The ones that had issues.

 

[PropPiedmont]

Correct me if I'm wrong....but does not the 500 series B737 have about the same amount of seats as the 717? How can this old airframe be more economical to operate than the 717?

The 717 may be a white elephant, but I'd be willing to bet Big D got some sweetheart lease rates. They got plenty-o-Douglas parts layin around, so good for them. Rumor is GK is payin them to take the airplanes. Who the hell knows, who the hell cares.

Don't worry, the first 4 of the 25 -500s will be retired by July. All -500s should be retired before the first 717 lease is transferred.

513 & 519 depart 6/19, 501 & 503 gone 6/24.

 

[FIREMAN]

If you're really looking for a serious answer in this, here it is: The 737-500 is more economcal to operate than the 717 because they are not leased. They are long since paid for. As long as the maintenance costs don't exceed operating revenue (so far), then they make money. And since we have the world's largest stockpile of 737 classic parts, and similar maintenance schedules to the rest of our planes, it'll be that way for a while.

Bubba[/QUOT

Actually nine are leased. Form the 10Q

http://filecache.drivetheweb.com/ir1_southwest/408/download/10Q+Filed+4.25.12.pdf