SWAPA Comments about 717

[ATLplt]

I hope they are not using our retirements to help offset of the remainder of the airplanes. I will be pissed if so. Anybody have any insight on this? Could it happen. We have about avg 300 hundred retirements from 2013-2015.

That's exactly what I was thinking as well. I'd be pissed too.

 

[scoreboardII]

I hope they are not using our retirements to help offset of the remainder of the airplanes. I will be pissed if so. Anybody have any insight on this? Could it happen. We have about avg 300 hundred retirements from 2013-2015.

that is exactly whats happenning, using retirements to justify being 300 pilots fat.

 

[fam62c]

At the very least we at Airtran need SWA pay now and possible revisit of the SLI. If not then things could get real ugly quick.

I don't think that any of that is going to happen. They have a deal that they believe they have complied with (nowhere does it say the 717 could not be disposed of) and they know that even though the AT pilots may be unhappy about this (the AT pilots have been unhappy about one thing or another for years) they will come to work and do their jobs well as they have always done, what else can they do? If they do anything additional for the AT pilots the SW pilots will want something of equal or greater value on their side, SW isn't going to go there.

It's a bad situation that is getting worse for the AT pilots but they are stuck with it at this point. Everything that SW management has done during this process has been a cold, hard business decision and that will continue until the last AT employees have crossed over the partition and AT is no more. The CEO is worried what the shareholders think, not what the AT employees think. AT pilots are on the same list, doing the same job and the revenue all flows to the same corporation but AT is AT and SW is SW and that's that. This ship has sailed and there are no consolation prizes at this point, I don't think anything of additional value is available to folks on the AT side. The only question now is how much worse it will get at AT over the next three years or so while there still is an AT.

 

[fam62c]

Thanks, that means a lot. Really.

Snap-up to the Pay Rates that were in AIP 1 effective immediately and a re-bid of the flush bid would be my suggestions.

Right now, contractually-speaking, Southwest does not have the option to bring people straight across the partition to 737 F/O if their equipment bid was 717. If they do, you'll end up with a grievance from every single person senior to them with a 737 F/O bid in place for the pay difference of SWA pay.

Although there is an allowance in SL10 for what happens if there is no 717 to bid into upon arrival at Southwest, the way our LOA is set up, even though it allows them to pull from whatever seat, aircraft, and base they want to come to Southwest, it does so based on the original seniority-based flush bid. Knowing that there is no 717 to bid into at Southwest, not re-bidding the flush bid will result in them KNOWINGLY pulling people out of seniority order from the 717 going to an award (737 SWA F/O) that someone senior to them at AirTran bid and held.

Knowing that they'll have to figure out something for that provision, I'm patiently waiting to hear more information, knowing that there's other portions of the 717 deal that are still contingent on passing (Delta vote, other vendor approval, etc) to where this thing may still fall apart and even if it doesn't, it will be some time before Southwest has to negotiate changes.

I'm not expecting any news in any kind of hurry. Just relaxing, enjoying my Memorial Day Weekend, and urging my fellow AirTran AND Southwest brethren to do the same. Can't fix anything and getting irritated at each other is kind of pointless, since no one on here is responsible for what's going on.

We're all just pilots; be cool to each other. :beer:

There are a number of problems here that may result in grievances depending on how they handle this. The right seat of the 717 was supposed to hold all of the most junior pilots but only some were moved over from the 737 while pilots junior to them are still in the 737. If the movement from 737 to 717 stops then those 717 FO's will be more junior than they should have been been in the 717 because the pilots who were supposed to be moved in below them are not being moved over. That means that some pilots will be on reserve longer, get worse schedules than they should get and worse vacation slots because their relative seniority in the 717 is not as good as the flush bid award would have indicated, a severe QOL hit for many 717 FO's near the bottom. The reverse is also true; now some 737 FO's who bid 717 FO are stuck on the 737 where they have worse relative seniority than they would have on the 717 if they could move over.

If they just stop moving pilots between the fleets now everything changes and relative seniority in equipment gets distorted. The whole flush bid accomplished nothing, it just screwed things up more and wasted money on training. The fact that the whole bid was based on a detailed transition plan that has now been thrown out the window means that everybody based their bid on bad information.

 

[THEPRFCT10]

It wasn't if you bid the 717 like a lot of us did. That bid was for quality of life, keeping your captain seat, or maintaining your bidding/vacation seniority. Since all of those now seem to being going away, rendering the bid useless, show us the effing money. I'll gladly trade any extra money for seniority though...which ain't gonna happen.

Every one of us (AT) is likely going to make LESS $$ this year because of the cut in hours, in spite of contractual pay increases. Unreal...

I feel for you guys... sorta...forgive me if I'm wrong but were you guys not almost ready to strike before the acquisition? Someone will always be worse off than you.

 

[PCL_128]

I feel for you guys... sorta...forgive me if I'm wrong but were you guys not almost ready to strike before the acquisition? Someone will always be worse off than you.

A strike was a very low probability. Without the acquisition, reaching a TA with slightly better money and a few better work rules within a few months was the most likely outcome. Most of the deal was done before the merger was announced.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I feel for you guys... sorta...forgive me if I'm wrong but were you guys not almost ready to strike before the acquisition? Someone will always be worse off than you.

I don't see your point, should a pilot group not try to better themselves simply because another is worse off? Have you ever subscribed to your theory?

 

[737tanker]

Everyone talking about there being 36 717s still on the AT side after 1/1/2015 needs to read all the letters again. They say the aircraft will go to delta 3 a month starting middle of next year.No where does it say when and how meany will be taken off line. However, all the letters do say the transition of pilots will continue as planned. One states that transition will be complete by 2015.

There is a letter from the VP of SWA FltOps to all SWA pilots that states that 16 717s will go in the 2nd half of 2013, 36 in 2014, and 36 in 2015.

 

[redflyer65]

There is a letter from the VP of SWA FltOps to all SWA pilots that states that 16 717s will go in the 2nd half of 2013, 36 in 2014, and 36 in 2015.

I had to double check, but this is correct.

 

[Citrusflyer]

There is a letter from the VP of SWA FltOps to all SWA pilots that states that 16 717s will go in the 2nd half of 2013, 36 in 2014, and 36 in 2015.

Well, that's about 216 Captains carrying over beyond 2015. Add to that any hiccup in the International res. system and you could have a sizable amount of 737's on the Airtran side after 2015 (up to 36 to 40 aircraft- another 240 or so Capt slots could be possible). I'm thinking Mr. Chase should have done some math prior to his "victory lap".

I'd think SWAPA would start thinking long term now, but what do I know ...