SWA to England?

[TurboS7]

Using the Boeing BLT you should be able to go ISP to LGW non-stop on a good day with ETOPS reserves. If not a quick tech stop at YQX would do the trick. You might have to limit your pax to 110 during the summer but would be able to do a full load in the winter. It is not as far as you would think. Flight time comes to just over 6.0 hours with an averge 80 knot tailwind.

 

[bustinmins]

Very true.

Someone will still be needed to play with the joystick as it cruises across the country.

I am sure that position will pay just as good!!!

 

[igneousy2]

I don't know general...your credibility is all but gone from me...on the one hand you bash swa for going to lbb...and then you come out "we get to go to Lagos!"

Sounds exciting!

I think I'd rather endure lbb than risk getting some still unknown monkey flu in lagos.

As far as JB poison pill... here is rule number one when listening to lawyers...

1. never believe a lawyer who tells you something relating to a contract is "black and white" or "iron clad" it NEVER is.

Additionally, if the lawyers are telling you your only recourse will be to strike...that doesn't sound like such a great deal to me as IF you are RELEASED for a strike (even though you are non-union you are still part of the RLA dungeon) it may very well be what DAL or whoever buys you WANTS anyway...go ahead and strike...we'll just fire you and hire replacements...we only wanted your airline for the JFK slots and gates ANYWAY. self-help is a two way street.

Also it doesn't smell right to me. It sounds like there is punitive language in "the contract" which is NOT ENFORCEABLE. Any kind of penalty inflicted must past a reasonableness test as far as that any "penalty" imposed must reimburse the other party but cannot be punitive in nature. For example, if you back out of an apartment lease...you are liable to pay rent on the apartment for the duration of the lease, however, your landlord must make a good faith effort to find a new tenant, when he does, your obligation to pay the lease going forward would end. You would have to be able to show that you were actually harmed by whatever scheme was imposed on you. Usually only monetary damages are considered by the courts, judges don't understand captain vs. first officer or bidding number one vs. bidding number 100. Because JB has a lower pay scale then Delta's (most of Deltas FO's make more than any of JB's pilots) and the fact that you will probably be seat protected in any merger scheme it will hard to show any actual monetary loss. If you don't believe me ask the 3,000 TWA pilots that got stapled to the bottom of AA's list about this very argument.

The other question I have is who are the "parties" to this contract. Is this something that each individual pilot signs with the company. If it isn't, since there is no entity that represent the pilots (i.e. a union) then there is no "contract" it is merely a policy that whomever controls the company can change pretty much at there will.

My other question would be what the quid-pro-quo (this for that) was. For a contract to be enforceable, both parties must do or give up something in exchange for something else. For example, if I sign a letter saying that I will give you 1.0 million dollars on May 5 and I don't, it doesn't matter, you will not be able to get the money unless you can show that you gave up something in exchange for the 1.0 million dollars. Without the quid-pro-quo it is merely a "promise" which is not enforceable in a court of law. What did JB pilots do or give up in order to justify this contract language.

Anyway, please don't take this as a slam it is not. I am merely putting information out there so the pilots at JB can do there own research and ask some questions when the lawyers start spewing words like "black and white" and "iron clad"

later

 

[General Lee]

I don't know general...your credibility is all but gone from me...on the one hand you bash swa for going to lbb...and then you come out "we get to go to Lagos!"

Sounds exciting!

I think I'd rather endure lbb than risk getting some still unknown monkey flu in lagos.

As far as JB poison pill... here is rule number one when listening to lawyers...

1. never believe a lawyer who tells you something relating to a contract is "black and white" or "iron clad" it NEVER is.

Additionally, if the lawyers are telling you your only recourse will be to strike...that doesn't sound like such a great deal to me as IF you are RELEASED for a strike (even though you are non-union you are still part of the RLA dungeon) it may very well be what DAL or whoever buys you WANTS anyway...go ahead and strike...we'll just fire you and hire replacements...we only wanted your airline for the JFK slots and gates ANYWAY. self-help is a two way street.

Also it doesn't smell right to me. It sounds like there is punitive language in "the contract" which is NOT ENFORCEABLE. Any kind of penalty inflicted must past a reasonableness test as far as that any "penalty" imposed must reimburse the other party but cannot be punitive in nature. For example, if you back out of an apartment lease...you are liable to pay rent on the apartment for the duration of the lease, however, your landlord must make a good faith effort to find a new tenant, when he does, your obligation to pay the lease going forward would end. You would have to be able to show that you were actually harmed by whatever scheme was imposed on you. Usually only monetary damages are considered by the courts, judges don't understand captain vs. first officer or bidding number one vs. bidding number 100. Because JB has a lower pay scale then Delta's (most of Deltas FO's make more than any of JB's pilots) and the fact that you will probably be seat protected in any merger scheme it will hard to show any actual monetary loss. If you don't believe me ask the 3,000 TWA pilots that got stapled to the bottom of AA's list about this very argument.

The other question I have is who are the "parties" to this contract. Is this something that each individual pilot signs with the company. If it isn't, since there is no entity that represent the pilots (i.e. a union) then there is no "contract" it is merely a policy that whomever controls the company can change pretty much at there will.

My other question would be what the quid-pro-quo (this for that) was. For a contract to be enforceable, both parties must do or give up something in exchange for something else. For example, if I sign a letter saying that I will give you 1.0 million dollars on May 5 and I don't, it doesn't matter, you will not be able to get the money unless you can show that you gave up something in exchange for the 1.0 million dollars. Without the quid-pro-quo it is merely a "promise" which is not enforceable in a court of law. What did JB pilots do or give up in order to justify this contract language.

Anyway, please don't take this as a slam it is not. I am merely putting information out there so the pilots at JB can do there own research and ask some questions when the lawyers start spewing words like "black and white" and "iron clad"

later

First of all, I don't really want to go to Lagos, but I will go anywhere once (I went to LBB once, hated it). And, as far as what COULD happen if Delta or anyone else wanted to buy JB, that is questionable. Who knows? But, if the lawyers through in there "every JB employee would get $5 million in quarters if someone bought us"---do you think it would float? I have a feeling that would be taken out of any final agreement, and if JB doesn't have ALPA, it might be tough to get a merged seniority list. Throw in there that most of DL is non union, and the fact that management would want to save face with those employees first, by probably stapling the JB employees below them. ("see, we protected you.....") Who knows, again?

And, me losing credibility in your eyes is not that important to me. I come on here ready to debate, and try to bring up logical discussions, with a bit of entertainment thrown in for me. I like to debate aviation issues. This is not a popularity contest, and I do it for enjoyment reasons. I hope you understand. I am not out to slam every company, well, except Comair and sometimes SkyWest. Take care.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Aubie]

SWA flies to LBB? Man I didn't know that. I've been here 2 1/2 years and never had an overnight or even flown in there.

Good thing I have the general to tell me how bad my quality of life is here at SWA, because boy have I been fooled. Maybe it's all the cash...

 

[canyonblue]

Good thing I have the general to tell me how bad my quality of life is here at SWA, because boy have I been fooled.

Must be his favorite song................

"Misery loves company
Won't you share what's inside of me
Misery loves company
Won't you share my misery
Misery loves company
Won't you share what's inside
Misery loves company
Won't you share my misery
Misery loves company
Step inside, that's what you'll see
Misery loves company, oh yeah"

 

[HalinTexas]

Using the Boeing BLT you should be able to go ISP to LGW non-stop on a good day with ETOPS reserves. If not a quick tech stop at YQX would do the trick. You might have to limit your pax to 110 during the summer but would be able to do a full load in the winter. It is not as far as you would think. Flight time comes to just over 6.0 hours with an averge 80 knot tailwind.

Did you include the fact that you have to run the APU the entire time you're over water? Might effect your fuel calculations.

Next. 110 pax won't ever make money on that route in a B737.

 

[General Lee]

SWA flies to LBB? Man I didn't know that. I've been here 2 1/2 years and never had an overnight or even flown in there.

Good thing I have the general to tell me how bad my quality of life is here at SWA, because boy have I been fooled. Maybe it's all the cash...

If you are based in BWI, you may never go there. If you are based in DAL, you may go there once a week (oh, that would be horrible). A MDW based pilot stated he saw 16 trips with LBB layovers this month. Maybe next month he will get some AMA or MAF layovers---what fun!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Must be his favorite song................

"Misery loves company
Won't you share what's inside of me
Misery loves company
Won't you share my misery
Misery loves company
Won't you share what's inside
Misery loves company
Won't you share my misery
Misery loves company
Step inside, that's what you'll see
Misery loves company, oh yeah"

I really enjoy my job, and one of the reasons is that I don't ever, ever have to go back to LBB again. I enjoy my San Juan and St Thomas turns. If I need a layover, I try to get SAN or SEA. This summer I will try to get Anchorage layovers. When I finally go over to the INTL side, I will get Venice or Nice. Those trips are more like a mini-vacation. You know (well, maybe you don't) what they say about INTL flying? It is a first class buffet (yes, we get first class meals--in the contract) on the way over to happy hour. See ya. You need to enjoy---DAL--LBB--ABQ--PHX--LAS--BOI--PDX tomorrow.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[canyonblue]

I really enjoy my job.............

Bye Bye--General Lee

One day you may really enjoy a wife and kids, I don't believe you have a family now. On the other hand, if you are married with kid's the what the hell is 8,605 post on FI about?

 

[General Lee]

One day you may really enjoy a wife and kids, I don't believe you have a family now. On the other hand, if you are married with kid's the what the hell is 8,605 post on FI about?

I don't have kids yet, but my wife is in her early 30s (she says "maybe" in a few years) and does very well at her job, making her the bread winner by far. She and I do travel when her schedule allows it. I enjoy flightinfo for the debate and banter, and I also think SWA is a good job, just not the job and routes I would want to have or fly. The pay, on the other hand, is great. Have a good one, and don't get too teed off about my LBB rants. I just really don't want to go there again. You may not want to go to Europe on 10 hour flights, just like I don't want more than 2 legs a day max.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Skybus]

I really enjoy my job, and one of the reasons is that I don't ever, ever have to go back to LBB again. I enjoy my San Juan and St Thomas turns. If I need a layover, I try to get SAN or SEA. This summer I will try to get Anchorage layovers. When I finally go over to the INTL side, I will get Venice or Nice. Those trips are more like a mini-vacation. You know (well, maybe you don't) what they say about INTL flying? It is a first class buffet (yes, we get first class meals--in the contract) on the way over to happy hour. See ya. You need to enjoy---DAL--LBB--ABQ--PHX--LAS--BOI--PDX tomorrow.


Bye Bye--General Lee

DUDE

When you do grow up to the int. side and sow your oats for awhile you WILL discover its a friggin airport and a hotel. Been there done that. The days of the "mini vacations" are long gone. Week in Hong Kong, 5 days in Paris done it. Just keep telling yourself its al worth it now considering your HUGE pay cuts. Have you seen the prices in Europe these days? Have to be a pre Bankruptcy Delta Captain to afford such things.

 

[General Lee]

DUDE

When you do grow up to the int. side and sow your oats for awhile you WILL discover its a friggin airport and a hotel. Been there done that. The days of the "mini vacations" are long gone. Week in Hong Kong, 5 days in Paris done it. Just keep telling yourself its al worth it now considering your HUGE pay cuts. Have you seen the prices in Europe these days? Have to be a pre Bankruptcy Delta Captain to afford such things.

Sure it is expensive. Thank gawd my wife does great at her job. And, I enjoy the job still after BK and 11 years at this place, so I think I will find some fun things to do when I go over to the INTL side. I still enjoy the DOM side right now. Thanks Dad, thanks for seeing it all and becoming jaded. You need to quit.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Aubie]

General,

Just so ya know, I have actually been a MDW-based pilot for a couple years now; never even flown into LBB. LBB isn't the point (it's Texas so I'm sure they're great folks down there). But thanks for illuminating me on how things are at my OWN company.

The point is, if you are going to speak so authoritatively about MY company, you should go to the trouble to get the facts straight (beyond just regurgitating some story you heard from a buddy who knows a guy who has a neighbor that flew for SWA ten years ago.) I don't work for Delta but I like the company and always have. I wish you guys the best. But I would never try to talk authoritatively about delta just based on rumors I hear or threads I read. That would be ignorant and stupid.

I read what you write about SWA and it makes me laugh because it's so off the mark. Not that it matters, really. maybe you're even doing us a favor putting out all the bad gouge.

 

[General Lee]

General,

Just so ya know, I have actually been a MDW-based pilot for a couple years now; never even flown into LBB. LBB isn't the point (it's Texas so I'm sure they're great folks down there). But thanks for illuminating me on how things are at my OWN company.

The point is, if you are going to speak so authoritatively about MY company, you should go to the trouble to get the facts straight (beyond just regurgitating some story you heard from a buddy who knows a guy who has a neighbor that flew for SWA ten years ago.) I don't work for Delta but I like the company and always have. I wish you guys the best. But I would never try to talk authoritatively about delta just based on rumors I hear or threads I read. That would be ignorant and stupid.

I read what you write about SWA and it makes me laugh because it's so off the mark. Not that it matters, really. maybe you're even doing us a favor putting out all the bad gouge.

Really? So, I don't have any friends that fly for SWA? Really? You are wrong. I can give you exact pairings (not the numbers to give away the people---can't do that) and rotation lengths and routes. My friends say they are tired and don't know if they can handle 5 leg days and 25 min turns for another 20 or more years. Why would I lie about that? Your flying isn't desired by everyone. Get that in your head. Sure, your company is well run and makes a lot of money, and so can you. Great. Not everyone wants to be a corndog. My friends hit the nail on the head, you work really hard. After a long transcon, it is NOT over most of the time. You have atleast one more leg to go, and exhaustion sets in. We make less right now, but that can change, just like when we were making a lot more than you (and helped you set your new rates, thank you very much---you're welcome). Back in the late 90's you had 737 Captains leaving for UAL---true fact, and they were then furloughed. Your company is great now, and you have great pay for what you fly. But, don't tell me I don't know what it is like for you---we all know people who actually do it. Enjoy the 1 2 3 rule and your high pay. I will enjoy my flying, and I really don't have to go to LBB. You could. And a SWA FO I met really did say "they work us like dogs." No joke. Some people don't want to fly like that.


Bye Bye--General Lee