SWA Removes B737 Type Requirment

[jonjuan]

Exactly.........

I am well into the top 1/3.

Except for a few scabs inserted on the list in front of me, I certainly wasn't "harmed" (which is definitely much better than the junior guys got), but to say I gained anything in this acquisition is a stretch of the definition......

The only movement I've seen lately is due, completely, to the retirements finally kicking in.

You received a greater seniority % spot on the list and more choices of trips due to the much larger company and increasing number of destinations not seen had the acquisition not happened. Don't bs us otherwise.

 

[PCL_128]

Exactly. They'll never admit it, though.

 

[redflyer65]

You received a greater seniority % spot on the list and more choices of trips due to the much larger company and increasing number of destinations not seen had the acquisition not happened. Don't bs us otherwise.

That's one of the weakest arguments I've seen in awhile Jon. It shows you really don't understand how the SW lines work.

If he's in the top third, and he wants weekends off...he already had them. Otherwise the lines are pretty much all the same. The only real difference in being that senior would be bidding on premium time. He got no upward movement to help him there.

New destinations? Who cares? I could care less whether I fly to Lubbock or Cancun. Would it be a better overnight in the Caribbean? Sure...but that's all you're left with in this flimsy argument for a senior dude.

I just wish I could have doubled my salary. Oh well.

 

[jonjuan]

Exactly. They'll never admit it, though.

Yep-Red loves his circular logic. Pretty funny, actually.

 

[redflyer65]

Yep-Red loves his circular logic. Pretty funny, actually.

The logic of a new destination for a senior guy?

You WIN sir!

 

[SpauldingSmails]

How is having a larger trip pool not a good thing, especially if you're looking for certain qualities. You may be able to gain more credit by flying longer legs, or a trip that starts late/finishes early so you can go to your kid's baseball game without needing to bid that day off.

 

[Tripower455]

You received a greater seniority % spot on the list and more choices of trips due to the much larger company and increasing number of destinations not seen had the acquisition not happened. Don't bs us otherwise.

Lol. If I didn't know that there was an SLI, nothing in my world has changed enough that would tell me otherwise.

I'm not sure where you guys are getting this " larger trip pool" bs from.

I am still flying the same trips, bidding against the same guys and if anything, I have less [i/] flexibility since the SLI., but I don't think that has much to do with the SLI..

I do get to go to some awesome new cities, like ICT, FNT, GRR, DSM etc. though, so there's that, I guess.

I got nothing.

 

[canyonblue]

Exactly. They'll never admit it, though.

You have become even dumber since you left the airlines. Has the pilot group at SWA benefited any in the past several years? The addition of the -800 has taken seats that were normally flown by more pilots, therefore our overall flying has remained FLAT. If we took ALL of the AAI airplanes we might have seen an increase in our flying, we didn't. The company just loves stupid pilots like jonjuan to keep playing the shell game with, I was hoping we wouldn't end up like that. Now I'm really glad you never set foot on the property, and even happier you never had a chance to speak for the pilots at SWA. You are the perfect Management STOOGE.

 

[canyonblue]

I'm not sure where you guys are getting this " larger trip pool" bs from.

Nobody with a brain gets their BS. There are plenty of moronic pilots popping up everyday. :roll eyes:

"Larger trip pool" now thats Fu(king funny. :laugh:

 

[redflyer65]

Now I'm really glad you never set foot on the property, and even happier you never had a chance to speak for the pilots at SWA. You are the perfect Management STOOGE.

Glad is an understatement. I was ecstatic. Took the wife out for filet mignon and single malt scotch. Nice silver lining.

 

[Tripower455]

Glad is an understatement. I was ecstatic. Took the wife out for filet mignon and single malt scotch. Nice silver lining.

I don't know........

I kind of enjoyed watching him raise the ire of certain folks on the SWApA forum.

 

[Nindiri]

Circular logic works because circular logic works because...

 

[PCL_128]

I do miss Henry's crazy rants. Those were entertaining.

 

[27 driver]

That's one of the weakest arguments I've seen in awhile Jon. It shows you really don't understand how the SW lines work.

If he's in the top third, and he wants weekends off...he already had them. Otherwise the lines are pretty much all the same. The only real difference in being that senior would be bidding on premium time. He got no upward movement to help him there.

New destinations? Who cares? I could care less whether I fly to Lubbock or Cancun. Would it be a better overnight in the Caribbean? Sure...but that's all you're left with in this flimsy argument for a senior dude.

I just wish I could have doubled my salary. Oh well.

Nobody doubled their pay. You are full of shat!

 

[redflyer65]

How much did a 4 or 5 year FO make per hour at AirTran before the acquisition?

Maybe a 90% increase instead of 100% right?

 

[PCL_128]

What acquisition? You mean the merger? And if we're going to use AirTran 2001 rates, let's compare them to SWA 2001 rates.

 

[redflyer65]

The rates on the date of signing.

You know, what you were getting paid August 2010.

4th and 5th year FO please.

 

[PCL_128]

I don't really give a damn what anyone was getting paid on August 2010. Those were 2001 rates for us, and we were about to finish up the new CBA. I know you like to pretend otherwise, but facts are stubborn things.

 

[redflyer65]

I don't really give a damn what anyone was getting paid on August 2010. Those were 2001 rates for us, and we were about to finish up the new CBA. I know you like to pretend otherwise, but facts are stubborn things.

They are Toad.

And that's why you won't answer. I'll dig them up tomorrow. Wrote them down the day the deal was announced. Thanks.

 

[PCL_128]

If you really want the answer that bad, I'll give it to you. Five year FOs made $72.01/hr in August of 2010. Still irrelevant, but hopefully that will help you get the sand out of your vagina.

 

[redflyer65]

You know PCL, at this point I don't even care that much...except when 27 Driver says it wasn't a doubling of salary.

When it was 131/hr (SW) vs. 72/hr (AirTran).

That's an increase of over 80% (I'll concede that's not quite a double). There were plenty that made out on the new payrates vs. what they were getting paid.

I will completely agree with you that AirTran should have been paid more and you guys were working hard toward that goal but you have to also realize that some did very well with this purchase. Others, not so much.

27, you going to chime in? Otherwise I'm done with the deadhorse.

 

[PCL_128]

red, "doing very well" is highly subjective. I did so "unwell" that I left, despite what you consider to be an 80% pay raise. Money is great, but it isn't everything. I wouldn't have gone back to commuting even for senior captain pay. Everyone has their own priorities. So claiming that people have "done well" just because of a pay raise is too simplistic.

 

[jonjuan]

red, "doing very well" is highly subjective. I did so "unwell" that I left, despite what you consider to be an 80% pay raise. Money is great, but it isn't everything. I wouldn't have gone back to commuting even for senior captain pay. Everyone has their own priorities. So claiming that people have "done well" just because of a pay raise is too simplistic.

You'd have to first pass the check ride.

 

[EngineThunder]

You'd have to first pass the Check ride.

Is dad paying for that too?

 

[FurloughedAgain]

He's got a point. Being forced into a commute after the virtual closure of a domicile is an extreme QOL hit.

Southwest is a W2 airline. They tend to look at W2 to the exclusion of all else. Some are little things like paid parking, paid uniforms. Others are bigger like no right of return, no long call reserve etc.

Money can't buy back time away from the family and, at least for most of the AirTran folks, commuting isn't a "choice". Their base was dissolved out from beneath them. It's no more right than what happened to the TWA guys in St. Louis or the USAir folks from da'burgh. But we can't say they made out great as a blanket statement without looking at how the transaction impacted quality of life.

 

[canyonblue]

Their base was dissolved out from beneath them.

No, their airline was dissolved beneath them. Same thing happened to TWA. It's the new model approach to dealing with a competitor, sometimes it's cheaper to kill them by buying them.

 

[Kermit_D_Frog]

Boo hoo hoo...

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Boo hoo hoo...

Really?! Can you imagine the uproar if Dallas closed tomorrow and the subsequent fiasco as some of the most senior pilots in the company were suddenly forced into commuting for the first time in decades?

A little empathy goes a long way.

 

[Tripower455]

He's got a point. Being forced into a commute after the virtual closure of a domicile is an extreme QOL hit.

It's equally extreme when you bid, move to a domicile, get forced out on a negative bid and then can't get back to the still open domicile for years because folks from the acquired airline are taking the slots. SWApA really screwed our junior guys by fighting ROR, but hey, at least I can snowbird my boat a little easier without that pesky ROR hampering my efforts!

Southwest is a W2 airline. They tend to look at W2 to the exclusion of all else. Some are little things like paid parking, paid uniforms. Others are bigger like no right of return, no long call reserve etc.

Funny, I always said the same about DAL and AA back in the day. My old man was a Pan Am guy that was "Acquired" by DAL with the atlantic routes. That was his, almost verbatim statement about QOL at DAL vs. Pan Am.

A close friend is a semi senior AA Capt. and for years, he made a lot more $$$ than I did at SW. Even 15 years ago, I wouldn't have traded schedules for twice what he was earning though.

I still wouldn't. My QOL and schedule flexibility are orders of magnitude better than his.

Money can't buy back time away from the family and, at least for most of the AirTran folks, commuting isn't a "choice".

The same can be said for lots of SW folks, and the issue has been exacerbated for them by the AT acquisition, in spite of their "global seniority gains".

Their base was dissolved out from beneath them. It's no more right than what happened to the TWA guys in St. Louis or the USAir folks from da'burgh. But we can't say they made out great as a blanket statement without looking at how the transaction impacted quality of life.

There was (and is) PLENTY of harm to go around on the SW side too. The only ones who gained anything were the folks who upgraded on the backs of the forfeited AT Capt seats. The rest of us got nothing (if we were lucky) and less. A lot of AT folks are getting raises to help compensate somewhat for their forced commute. Our guys get nothing for it as they watch former Air Tran folks take the seats they were displaced from.

Thanks GK!

 

[bluesideup1]

Really?! Can you imagine the uproar if Dallas closed tomorrow and the subsequent fiasco as some of the most senior pilots in the company were suddenly forced into commuting for the first time in decades?

A little empathy goes a long way.

Yes because adding 8 more bases to include what you already had is a horrible thing? Yes some got kicked out of their 1 main base but it is growing and a lot are getting back in.

How many hundreds don't have to commute to your ONE main base because they now have 8 additional bases to go to? I will happily put your numbers on how many were commuting to ATL that are now living in a base or a lot closer to a base vs. those who are now displaced out of a base and considering that ATL is growing I bet all those that want ATL will be there soon.

Now with the MASSIVE raises that the vast majority of the AT pilots got since the SW purchase should ease the pain of the initial displacement of those that were harmed on the AT side. On the SW side those that were displaced and cannot return to their base because of the acquisition got ZERO to help the medicine go down.

So, please stop playing the victim as the vast majority of the people at AT benefited from having more bases to choose from.