SWA pool is starting to drain!!!

[jonjuan]

I see this going more like the TranStar aquisition. History may repeat itself.

Your eye doctor called. He said you need to change your prescription.

 

[General Lee]

You guys are really comparing NWA/DL vs SW/AAI?

I'm sorry but that's not even close to similar.

Guppy,

Your numbers are off, its more like 50-100 percent pay difference. NW/DL wasn't even close to that disparity.

Are you sure about that? You are forgetting that DL and NWA have a lot of different plane types, from DC9s to 744s now. The NWA side had fences around equipment for 20 years after the NWA/Republic deal went through, and that fence just came down before the DL merger. A senior DC9 Captain at NWA could easily hold 767 Captain at Delta, and that pay raise was HUGE, and many took it after the SLI happened. Also, the difference NOW between Airtran and SWA is not has much as it was before the recent Airtran contract renewal. You have to compare the difference NOW, not before, and that is what the arbitrator will look at. It is NOT 50% raise now, thanks to the new contract they just got.

Also, it doesn't matter if the SWA/AT merger is JUST like or not like the DL/NWA merger. Precedent will be looked at with the DL/NWA and the AWA/USAir merger. There is nothing you can do about it. The lawyers and arbitrators will help decide it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

General,

Yes I'm sure about it. I've run the numbers on here before and its a MASSIVE difference. Not even close to a pre-merger NW/DL payscale differences and career expectations.

I usually try to respect most of your comments, but saying they are going to use their new contract now is just flat out wrong and I think you probably know that.

The snapshot of work rules and seniority list was taken Sept. 27th.

Did the career expecations of AAI change on that day? Honest question that no one wants to answer.

 

[CaptainKiwi]

Bongo-this post is spot on. CAs will remain as CAs and F/Os about to upgrade will also upgrade soon. southwest was out of ideas to grow which is why gk decided to buy aai. southwest ladies lose zero in this deal gk put together. You get to keep all your toys. You just have to share now.

Everything is senority based.... Opentime, vacation, equipment... Organic SWA has a lot to lose...

We are expecting to keep the 300/500 for 10 more years so AAI will likely get to play with our toys too....

 

[General Lee]

General,

Yes I'm sure about it. I've run the numbers on here before and its a MASSIVE difference. Not even close to a pre-merger NW/DL payscale differences and career expectations.

I usually try to respect most of your comments, but saying they are going to use their new contract now is just flat out wrong and I think you probably know that.

The snapshot of work rules and seniority list was taken Sept. 27th.

Did the career expecations of AAI change on that day? Honest question that no one wants to answer.

Why did the AT management settle their contrat then? To be nice? They wanted to close the gap as much as they could. And, there is NO snapshot of workrules, only seniority lists. If any newhires come on after the announcement of the merger, then they will be placed at the bottom (happened for the DL/NWA merger---it will happen again). And to try to answer your question, how can you know what the final career expectations were of any AT pilot? Maybe if they stayed away from SWA, maybe they could have hit it HUGE, and had a SWA style contract in 5 years? You don't know. Maybe SWA could have had a string of accidents and then gone BK. All that is certain is that both SWA and AT have 737-700s as their largest plane (738s coming for both) currently, and both have smaller planes (735s and 717s). They are both profitable LCCs at the moment. Yes, SWA is bigger, and that will be taken into account by the arbitrators no doubt. But, there will be some AT people filtered in near the top of your list, and on downward. They may not be at the top, or top 300, but they will be there, and there will also be SWA pilots at the bottom of the combined list. All newhires since the announcement of the merger will be placed at the bottom of the SLI. Even poolies.

My point is Red, nobody knows what AT could have turned out to be, and nobody knows what might have happened to SWA if there were some accidents or problems. Career expectations right now for both is 737-700 (or -800) Captain. Looking at the current payrates for both airlines on APC, it looks like per hour (or trip) there is a difference of about $40. That was pretty close to the DL/NWA difference on certain planes (we didn't have exactly the same type planes), and NWA still had a frozen pension too. Expect about the same look at it from an arbitrator.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[texman]

Bongo-this post is spot on. CAs will remain as CAs and F/Os about to upgrade will also upgrade soon. southwest was out of ideas to grow which is why gk decided to buy aai. southwest ladies lose zero in this deal gk put together. You get to keep all your toys. You just have to share now.

Narrow minded post.

 

[General Lee]

Everything is senority based.... Opentime, vacation, equipment... Organic SWA has a lot to lose...

We are expecting to keep the 300/500 for 10 more years so AAI will likely get to play with our toys too....

Doesn't AT have about 85 717s? Have you ever seen those planes? They have very nice MD11 style cockpits, big quiet engines, and probably could be used on the West Coast too. They are about as big as a 737-500, and are a heck of a lot newer. It will be interesting to see what the final pay rate will be via SWAPA on the 717, but if it is close to the 737, I doubt many of the AT guys would want to leave it. You may actually want to upgrade on it someday. Go take a look at it or check it out on the internet. And, I know a certain large legacy airline is interested in them NOW if SWA wants to dump them.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Narrow minded post.

Based on precedent. What is your reply based on? FEAR.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I see this going more like the TranStar aquisition. History may repeat itself.

Red,

Since that happened, the Bond/McKaskil bill was introduced (preventing a staple), and there have been two very recent arbitration proceedings concerning SLIs. Those things will be used here, not the Transtar or Morris acquisitions.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

General,

You need to brush up on what happened there. Even if Bond/Mac were in effect then......wait for it......wouldn't have made a difference. They didn't integrate the seniority list.