SWA plan for 15% ROIC

[Just thinking]

"The union's position is that we've already done our part to help save money (a rapid agreement to flying -800s with no override, a rapid agreement on near-international with no override). These are things that the company wanted to help lower unit costs moving forward to achieve its goals. Basically, we already gave at the office."................

Not slinging mud with my comment about SWAPA caving into gk's demands. Stating a fact. They are now beholden to him and he will come calling. You got your seats and he dumped the 717's. Sure your lower third of RSW pilots will be pissed for decades but you succeeded in gaining for the middle third which had the greatest amount to gain. Top third could care less about the deal as long as it did not affect them.

You signed away override pay for what? You lowered unit cost. 137 seats to 175 seats. You directly contributed to the bottom line for the company for what? FAT Captain seats? Higher profit sharing? Better daily guarantee? What was gained other than a larger airframe which gk wanted anyhow.

Scoreboard Slaquer and Wave have made salient points. I harbor no ill will to anyone on the RSW side.
My greatest disgust is the way the gk has meddled in the process. It is pitiful that they have wasted almost two years with no code share.... something that should have been done with a couple of months to capture the "synergies" they were touting.
Herb time needs to be put on the shelf with the other memorabilia and SWA needs to take a huge jump into the 1990's. Still not single engine taxiing while they wait a couple of months so the Captains can get comfortable with the process. Enough of the operations have been revealed and it is pretty tragic that gk is preaching 15% ROI when it has been within his grasp the entire time.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Thanks

Nice to see both sides slinging mud.I hope you don't speak for the majority over there.

Probably the majority of those left over here. Even the facebookers, emailers, and surrender monkeys (often one in the same), are less than plussed with the way this is panning out with a lot more angst to come on both sides.

 

[scoreboardII]

"The union's position is that we've already done our part to help save money (a rapid agreement to flying -800s with no override, a rapid agreement on near-international with no override). These are things that the company wanted to help lower unit costs moving forward to achieve its goals. Basically, we already gave at the office."................

Not slinging mud with my comment about SWAPA caving into gk's demands. Stating a fact. They are now beholden to him and he will come calling. You got your seats and he dumped the 717's. Sure your lower third of RSW pilots will be pissed for decades but you succeeded in gaining for the middle third which had the greatest amount to gain. Top third could care less about the deal as long as it did not affect them.

You signed away override pay for what? You lowered unit cost. 137 seats to 175 seats. You directly contributed to the bottom line for the company for what? FAT Captain seats? Higher profit sharing? Better daily guarantee? What was gained other than a larger airframe which gk wanted anyhow.

Scoreboard Slaquer and Wave have made salient points. I harbor no ill will to anyone on the RSW side.
My greatest disgust is the way the gk has meddled in the process. It is pitiful that they have wasted almost two years with no code share.... something that should have been done with a couple of months to capture the "synergies" they were touting.
Herb time needs to be put on the shelf with the other memorabilia and SWA needs to take a huge jump into the 1990's. Still not single engine taxiing while they wait a couple of months so the Captains can get comfortable with the process. Enough of the operations have been revealed and it is pretty tragic that gk is preaching 15% ROI when it has been within his grasp the entire time.

please enlighten us how zero input by the CEO in the USair debacle was good for pilots or the company?

 

[SWA Bubba]

......

Not slinging mud with my comment about SWAPA caving into gk's demands. Stating a fact. They are now beholden to him and he will come calling. You got your seats and he dumped the 717's. Sure your lower third of RSW pilots will be pissed for decades but you succeeded in gaining for the middle third which had the greatest amount to gain. Top third could care less about the deal as long as it did not affect them.
.....

Your idea that we (SWAPA) "owes" GK anything and that we're "beholden" to him for his input on the SLI deal is NOT a fact-- it's simply sour grapes on your part. It's part of your tired schtick to imply that GK and SWAPA ganged up on you to "steal your toys." It's crap, and I guarantee you that no one at SWAPA feels this way. No one. Some Southwest pilots are neutral and some are pissed off because of their feelings on the whole matter. Trust me--you guys don't have any monopoly on not liking this whole merger thing.

We owe the company nothing for this merger. Not a damn thing. SWAPA typically tries to work with the company for the betterment of both, because that's how our relationship works. That's all we're doing, and like I said, SWAPA's position is that we already contributed to Gary's goals.

Give it a rest, or at the very least, do your "just thinking" to yourself; no one is buying your sob story. We all took what the company told us, and it seems that nobody really likes it. We'll all get over it, or we won't. Everyone makes that decision for themselves.

Bubba

 

[texman]

Actually, we don't have to agree to jack squat. The union's position is that we've already done our part to help save money (a rapid agreement to flying -800s with no override, a rapid agreement on near-international with no override). These are things that the company wanted to help lower unit costs moving forward to achieve its goals. Basically, we already gave at the office. If we don't agree to anything different, we'll still get our pay levels and perks.

Wait... I'm sorry--if you just wanted to bitch, then sorry about answering your concerns. Carry on.

Bubba

I totally agree with you bubba. We gave the company the tools to succeed. It is up to them to execute.

 

[Just thinking]

Time will tell. I want SWA to be as efficient as possible and make the right moves to gain the hallowed 15% ROIC. I just have not seen much evidence from an operational stand point. Millions of dollars of fuel have been wasted. Airtran went as far as using less potable water for the shorter flights in an effort to save fuel. I have not seen that sort of effort from the SWA operational side. "That is not how SWA does it" is not the answer. Before this all went down I could have cared less how SWA operated. Now I have a vested interest and it is pretty obvious that it is now cutting into the profit sharing.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Scoreboard just for reference I am a SWA F/O and am not and never have been AAI. I have no idea what "normal" is in terms of reserve staffing on the Airtran side. I think it is fair to say that with all the cities that have left the Airtran system that a lot of flying has been taken out of Airtran. I can't quantify that in terms of block hours but maybe PCL or Lear can. In normal circumstances I wouldn't sweat 10 airframes leaving but the problem is if we were really going to have a flat fleet the WN side of the partition should be growing at roughtly the same rate the AT side is shrinking. That is not the case. AAI is losing 24 airframes (16 to DL and 8 to WN) and WN is losing 10 in addition to those for a total loss of 34 airframes. That is more than a normal fluctuation.

 

[maxblast72]

Scoreboard just for reference I am a SWA F/O and am not and never have been AAI. I have no idea what "normal" is in terms of reserve staffing on the Airtran side. I think it is fair to say that with all the cities that have left the Airtran system that a lot of flying has been taken out of Airtran. I can't quantify that in terms of block hours but maybe PCL or Lear can. In normal circumstances I wouldn't sweat 10 airframes leaving but the problem is if we were really going to have a flat fleet the WN side of the partition should be growing at roughtly the same rate the AT side is shrinking. That is not the case. AAI is losing 24 airframes (16 to DL and 8 to WN) and WN is losing 10 in addition to those for a total loss of 34 airframes. That is more than a normal fluctuation.

Not sure where you are getting your numbers. For 2013, according to Tammy Romo (SWA CFO) and Gary Kelly (SWA CEO), Southwest/AirTran combined are getting 20 new B737-800s from Boeing, retiring 13 B737 classics, and sub leasing 16 B717s to Delta. According to my math, that is a net fleet reduction of 9 aircraft. Also, Kelly is advertising 2% ASMS growth to Wall Street for 2013.

 

[waveflyer]

Just thinking-
You think too much-
I get it- waiting for the other shoe to drop- it always has in my career-
But I'll paraphrase a certain director of training: some day something will happen and you'll need Gary and swa to have your back - and he will, and WE WILL. In the meantime show up and take care of everyone you see. Don't even worry about you. Those acts and that mentality will result in you being taken care of ten times better than if you focused on yourself.

No furloughs

A classmate of mine already had his GK has his back moment- and when cancer has you, it's powerful stuff-

Me, I look at how GK didn't furlough in 2008&2009 -
I get being worried - but remember, it was AT that took that opportunity to take hostages, not swa

By the way-
S5 has it right- we've had to have a lot of patience, and GK needs to get contracts in line company wide

But watch what 2015 is going to bring

And JT, I didn't get an upgrade, only a very small percentage did- maybe those few hundred pilots of 8000+ owe GK, but Im with bubba, we've been more than cooperative in the last few years-
Paychecks cashed well, but I see no reason for givebacks when the company has gotten pretty much everything they wanted

 

[dicko]

Just thinking-
You think too much-
I get it- waiting for the other shoe to drop- it always has in my career-
But I'll paraphrase a certain director of training: some day something will happen and you'll need Gary and swa to have your back - and he will, and WE WILL. In the meantime show up and take care of everyone you see. Don't even worry about you. Those acts and that mentality will result in you being taken care of ten times better than if you focused on yourself.

No furloughs

A classmate of mine already had his GK has his back moment- and when cancer has you, it's powerful stuff-

Me, I look at how GK didn't furlough in 2008&2009 -
I get being worried - but remember, it was AT that took that opportunity to take hostages, not swa

By the way-
S5 has it right- we've had to have a lot of patience, and GK needs to get contracts in line company wide

But watch what 2015 is going to bring

And JT, I didn't get an upgrade, only a very small percentage did- maybe those few hundred pilots of 8000+ owe GK, but Im with bubba, we've been more than cooperative in the last few years-
Paychecks cashed well, but I see no reason for givebacks when the company has gotten pretty much everything they wanted

I like it. Most of it anyway.

In all fairness; you may not have got an upgrade out of it, but your seniority increased by a percentage. That got you closer to an upgrade. I understand that their are other factors involved. Still, it certainly beats losing 32%.

I do think 2015 will be an interesting year. I read today that the Hobby International terminal is scheduled to open that year.

 

[scoreboardII]

Please, get off he seniority grab, everyone over on the swa side will end our careers within one percent of where we Were pre AT. The nature of the AT pilot force being younger demanded as much, and in my opinion far more, but I'm over that. You should be as well.

 

[dicko]

Please, get off he seniority grab, everyone over on the swa side will end our careers within one percent of where we Were pre AT. The nature of the AT pilot force being younger demanded as much, and in my opinion far more, but I'm over that. You should be as well.

We should be over it because you are ? Interesting world view.

Spending longer as a Captain prior to that final retirement number makes you more money. My point being; your final retirement percentage is less relevant than the amount of time being paid at the Captain rate. You got a boost towards that number. We got a foot on our head.

The age issue is SWAPA smoke and mirrors. Look at the analysis of age on myseniority.com. He showed that it's only true in a narrow band.

 

[HowardBorden]

The age issue is SWAPA smoke and mirrors. Look at the analysis of age on myseniority.com. He showed that it's only true in a narrow band.

Well, it's certainly true in my "band." I gained less than 9% in global seniority that is slowly eroded away until my retirement. I end up with less than one half of one percentage point change in seniority with the AirTran acquisition as opposed to without it at retirement.

 

[redflyer65]

Same here. Zero gain on my upgrade date. Nothing.

 

[texman]

We should be over it because you are ? Interesting world view.

Spending longer as a Captain prior to that final retirement number makes you more money. My point being; your final retirement percentage is less relevant than the amount of time being paid at the Captain rate. You got a boost towards that number. We got a foot on our head.

The age issue is SWAPA smoke and mirrors. Look at the analysis of age on myseniority.com. He showed that it's only true in a narrow band.

Dicko, AT's financial's and everybody consolidating, AT would have never survived. You do know that SWA is paying down your 3 plus billion that AT owed in debt. Stop being a blue collar thinker. As far as the foot in the head? I would love to tell you over a beer what I lost in the long Run. I lost a lot of QOL and Money making potential. Even your boy Klaus knew the fate of AT, Plus you should talk to your ex CFO when you get a chance.

 

[vixin]

Tex, but they had all these orders and ATL. Dont mention financial stuff because they were going to grow like no tomorrow. Despite what their CEO and CFO were saying. That was all smoke and mirrors. AAI was the place to be.

 

[canyonblue]

Still, it certainly beats losing 32%.

Please, enough about the 32% figure which represents your relative position at AT vs SWA.

#1. Relative seniority would have never happened, ever, no way no how no sir.

#2. If I didn't gain 32% seniority, you didn't lose 32% seniority, simple math.

Sorry, but I can't stand hearing that response, it makes no sense.

Well, it's certainly true in my "band." I gained less than 9% in global seniority that is slowly eroded away until my retirement. I end up with less than one half of one percentage point change in seniority with the AirTran acquisition as opposed to without it at retirement.

Seems to be the point with many of us, how did this acquisition help me?

Please, get off he seniority grab, everyone over on the swa side will end our careers within one percent of where we Were pre AT. The nature of the AT pilot force being younger demanded as much, and in my opinion far more, but I'm over that. You should be as well.

Very true, talked to a Delta (NWA) friend today who informed me on their "merger" SLI between two very close in size airlines. Most of the NWA guys lost 2+ years some more, and many who expected to retire on a widebody, will now retire on a 757.

 

[humveedriver]

Until there is some good news, there will be petty threads like this. It's a downside to the separate ops. Wish they would have ripped the band aid off instead of peeling it away slowing. I think some of the stuff that is impacting us now is going to help in the long run. The big one that grabs me is the fleet decision. Sucks all the way around for everybody and threw alot of folks for a loop. But I'm looking at the "big order" and the decision to delay several -800s as a big thing. Either 900max or 900ER big. For longer range stuff. 787 is twice the cost of either if those rigs. The big order didn't break down the model series. Throw in the new intl terminal at HOU and the wright amendment and there is some good stuff to be done in TX. I can see BWI, LAX , MCO and SJU becoming more focul in SWAs future too. Capacity is down 28% for the year in Memphis and SWA is adding more flights to fill the void. I think there is great cause to be cautiously optimistic. Once things pick up again, folks will spend less time complaining about "the good old days".

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Can WN go to San Juan yet?

 

[humveedriver]

Starting 14 APR from MCO and TPA. I hope so or else they sold alot of tickets for nothing.