? SWA or CAL

[fastone]

All great info == thanks. I do not want this to turn into a SWA vs. CAL. Both are awesome! Both offer so much... I plan on having an ulcer by the time decisions are made... Thanks for the matter that you have given to grind on... More sleepless nights!

 

[SWA/FO]

Wait until you have a job offer from both and then decide that SWA is the way to go.

 

[MarylandONE]

Yours sure sounds great.



Not to mention helpful...

Just giving out the facts and you obviously don't get it.

 

[MarylandONE]

I'm guessing it is, based on the information he provided:

Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 5


Aircraft Experience: Only the 737-300/-700 matters
Flight Experience: SWA
Ratings: 737s
Total Time: LOTS

He probably doesn't even work there, with a line like "Only the 737-300/-700 matters". The Southwest guys I drink with at Mr. C's aren't lame enough to say that.

They don't have to say it. It's known. Knock on wood, maybe but fact is we have never furloughed and CAL has numerous times without even thinking about the employees. SWA may have considered furloughing but the fact remains they know what is important. Every other airline doesn't get it.

Go with SWA they are the only choice.

 

[buttercup]

Go with the one that will make your life the easiest now!! Don't even try to predict which one will be better in the future. DO NOT COMMUTE.. If you absoleutly love where you live pick the one with the easiest commute. If you are willing to move, pick the one that is based in the city you'd like to live in. Everything else will work it self out. Oh yeah, did I mention AVOID COMMUTING AT ALL COSTS!

 

[buttercup]

All great info == thanks. I do not want this to turn into a SWA vs. CAL. Both are awesome! Both offer so much... I plan on having an ulcer by the time decisions are made... Thanks for the matter that you have given to grind on... More sleepless nights!

The only ulcer you will get is if you commute!!

 

[cxcap]

Do you want to be awake when normal people are awake or do you want to fly on the backside of the clock and then try to adjust when you get home every single week of your life?

Do you want to be in your own country or strange countries with strange food?

If you get sick and need medical attention do you want to be in America or some third world country?

Do you want to ever have a chance at weekends off sometime soon or do you want to wait til you're 59 to be able to hold weekends off?

Do you want to fly with people who enjoy their job and are happy to be at work or grumpy old guys that are only working because they're on their 8th wife?

By the way, after about two weeks of being in the 777 you will give a rats @$$ if you're in the 777 or the 73. Its all about QOL.

 

[propjob27]

Its all about QOL.

Absolutely correct, and everyone has a different idea of what that is.

Do you want to be awake when normal people are awake or do you want to fly on the backside of the clock and then try to adjust when you get home every single week of your life?

Many of us, myself included, find flying one 7:45 minute leg from EWR/JFK to Amsterdam, followed by a 30 to 40 hour layover, and then one leg back alot "nicer" than flying 4 to 6 one hour legs per day, with 20 minute turns. Some other nice things about widebody/international flying:

• 90% of the time, there is no such thing as a "turn". You fly one leg, and then you go to the hotel.
• What is an "aircraft swap"?? You stow your bags, in a large cockpit, sit there, and then you don't touch them again until it's time to go to the hotel.
• You're fed meals in flight, some of them quite good, rather than trying to shove a burrito down your throat on a 20 minute "break" between flights.

Do you want to be in your own country or strange countries with strange food?

Many of us, myself included, didn't become airline pilots to spend our careers doing 11-18 hour overnights in the lower 48 states and eating at the Olive Garden. Or for that matter, even worse, doing turns. I know the days of flying all over the world for Pan Am and being treated like God are nearly dead. However, there still exists many decent opportunities to see the world, stay in 4 or 5 star hotels and get paid to do so. There's no sense of adventure at all in an ABQ layover, except for sleeping with the flight attendants, which one can do in other countries too. And it's harder for your wife or girlfriend to catch you that way.

If you get sick and need medical attention do you want to be in America or some third world country?

Call in sick and airline/deadhead home. Yes, people have gotten in car accidents and other emergencies on layovers in other countries and it can suck. I've been in a hospital on a Budapest layover after our hotel van was hit by a car. Thank god I wasn't hurt at all and they didn't have to touch me.

Do you want to ever have a chance at weekends off sometime soon or do you want to wait til you're 59 to be able to hold weekends off?

I'm not sure how tough this is at various airlines, so I can't say one way or the other.

Do you want to fly with people who enjoy their job and are happy to be at work or grumpy old guys that are only working because they're on their 8th wife?

Who cares. I'm not sure which is worse, listening to some guy bitch about his 3rd wife who was f ucking the milkman or listening to some other guy talk about how great this is and how he'd fly for free. The reality of that is, you don't really have to listen either way. If you don't like the coversation, don't pay any attention to it. The guy will eventually stop talking if you just nod and say "uh huh", "uh huh".

By the way, after about two weeks of being in the 777 you will give a rats @$$ if you're in the 777 or the 73.

No argument there. Which makes me laugh at the "I'd rather make 3 landings a day instead of 3 a month!!" argument. Again, who cares.

In the end, I'm not saying one particular type of airline is better than another. They just can be very different. Being a 777 or 756 FO for CAL is alot different than being a 737 FO for LUV. Is one better than the other? No. Hell, Southwest pays more. Is one better for some people than the other? Definately. Fastone has to make that choice for himself (if he's lucky enough to)

 

[AlbieF15]

...well...SWA or CAL...

...ain't it nice to be talking about which carrier to join vice asking when the next round of furloughs takes place or when the pool will finally start being drained? Here's to good choices!

 

[jbDC9]

They don't have to say it. It's known. Knock on wood, maybe but fact is we have never furloughed and CAL has numerous times without even thinking about the employees. SWA may have considered furloughing but the fact remains they know what is important. Every other airline doesn't get it.

Go with SWA they are the only choice.

Is it just me, or is anyone else getting tired of these chest thumping, Kool Aid drinking gung-ho SWA fags? Yeah guys, I'm sure SWA is a great place to be; however, it isn't the only place. There is life outside of Southwest, believe it or not.

Now, before you comment on how I must've been shot down at a SW interview, sour grapes and all that, I'll say nope, never interviewed there. Didn't even try. Why? I didn't have a 737 type at the time and I wasn't about to go pay for one on my own.

 

[MarylandONE]

Is it just me, or is anyone else getting tired of these chest thumping, Kool Aid drinking gung-ho SWA fags?


I didn't have a 737 type at the time and I wasn't about to go pay for one on my own.

Funny how SWA "fags" have been thumping our chests while other pilots have been crying in their beer when before they were insulting us over the years. Thumping our chests is a small testament to why we are leaders not followers.


No one said you have to pay for a type.

 

[VVJM265]

Very well written propjob27.

 

[ForgedBlade]

Very well written propjob27.

Yes, thanks. Both airlines have their merits, and for the guys that think Int'l flying is brutal, and those long, one-leg flights are torture, not mention all the strange food in strange countries - try it! I've never enjoyed flying as much as I did with all the Int'l trips we did at ATA. I know my buds at SWA luv it, and I'm really happy for them, but I'll sure remember looking down at the pyramids in Egypt or a screwy arrival in to Plovdiv, Bulgaria over the times I've had to drone along, on say, the Civet arrival in to LAX. It's all been enjoyable though, the best to everyone.

 

[jbDC9]

Funny how SWA "fags" have been thumping our chests while other pilots have been crying in their beer when before they were insulting us over the years. Thumping our chests is a small testament to why we are leaders not followers.

See what I mean? You idiots just can't stop... and I don't mean all SWA pilots, just the several on this board that are spewing ego inflating crap like this here. Mary, how do you fit that huge head of yours thru the cockpit door? I'm not crying in my beer (I actually like my job at an airline that is not SW) and have never insulted Southwest Airlines; I just tired of hearing this stuff outta you guys.

 

[SWA GUY]

JBDC9,

If you are so tired of reading about it, why don't you quit reading the threads that have SWA in the title?

If AA was doing really well, and in the past they have, you'd be here complaining about them I'm sure....

Get a life!

 

[MarylandONE]

See what I mean? You idiots just can't stop... and I don't mean all SWA pilots, just the several on this board that are spewing ego inflating crap like this here. Mary, how do you fit that huge head of yours thru the cockpit door? I'm not crying in my beer (I actually like my job at an airline that is not SW) and have never insulted Southwest Airlines; I just tired of hearing this stuff outta you guys.

For 10 years whenever I had to jumpseat on one of the "legacy carriers" I took it from you guys. "Hey, you know were hiring here at XXX airline." "Hey, so it's like a regional, right?" "Do you guys have a pension plan over there?" I could go on and on. Fact is we have been proven right and it's time to pound a chest in happiness. If you don't like it go read a legacy carrier thread. Oh yeah, they're all depressing. Go figure. Why don't you head over to the, "SWA pilots get a pay raise" thread?

 

[Flopgut]

If you don't like it go read a legacy carrier thread. Oh yeah, they're all depressing. Go figure. Why don't you head over to the, "SWA pilots get a pay raise" thread?

Whats the title of this thread Mr. Wizard? I think CAL is a legacy.

Fastone: I stand by my earlier advice, save one thing: you might want to stay at that corp gig if it is real good. So to recap: if you have to leave the corp deal, SWA then CAL. If you are under 40, you might want to wait about 5 years or so and see how this all shakes out.

The only potential problem with SWA is these guys/gals that are posting this crap. They are acting this way in public more often also. This is really going to start to grate on the other SWA employee groups. SWA pilots make a great deal of money quickly (upgrade), the other employees don't do so hot (many get bought out or otherwise marginalized). This is going to wear thin with them because these pilots don't have a real link to the past discipline that made SWA great. They DO however, have this overt bravado in which they suggest they are the epitomy of SWA spirit. Other employees are going to want a bigger share, and it will be a fight because SWA has been resolved in the past to keep the non pilot groups particuliarly low paid. The company is highly unionized too, 7 unions I think.

 

[jetflier]

One word, "Job Security". Make that two words...

I'll bet that those words were repeated in the history of airlines starting with the great United Airlines during the 1930's....TWA.....Pan Am.....EAL......Piedmont......US Air..........DAL.........NWA............who else?

When I started interviewing for the Major job the word was to take the first one that comes along and get that seniority number.

Well that seniority number may or may not be whats best.

Both SWA and CAL are great airlines each with its own merrits.

CAL offers different piloting job opportunities with the widebody flying internationally being a nice reward.

SWA offers a whole lot more flying to a greater number ofcities than CAL,
and for now only the 737, a great jet. Plus I believe the SWA flight attendents are younger than CAL's.

If and when NWA hires, you could probebly fly with CAL flight attendents great grandma's, who are FA's for NWA!

Good Luck

 

[ivauir]

SWA pilots make a great deal of money quickly (upgrade), the other employees don't do so hot (many get bought out or otherwise marginalized).

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[MarylandONE]

Whats the title of this thread Mr. Wizard? I think CAL is a legacy.

Fastone: I stand by my earlier advice, save one thing: you might want to stay at that corp gig if it is real good. So to recap: if you have to leave the corp deal, SWA then CAL. If you are under 40, you might want to wait about 5 years or so and see how this all shakes out.

The only potential problem with SWA is these guys/gals that are posting this crap. They are acting this way in public more often also. This is really going to start to grate on the other SWA employee groups. SWA pilots make a great deal of money quickly (upgrade), the other employees don't do so hot (many get bought out or otherwise marginalized). This is going to wear thin with them because these pilots don't have a real link to the past discipline that made SWA great. They DO however, have this overt bravado in which they suggest they are the epitomy of SWA spirit. Other employees are going to want a bigger share, and it will be a fight because SWA has been resolved in the past to keep the non pilot groups particuliarly low paid. The company is highly unionized too, 7 unions I think.

It's funny you think our culture would fall into the flames of your airline's. Sounds like a chapter out of an ALPA manual.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[jbDC9]

JBDC9,

If you are so tired of reading about it, why don't you quit reading the threads that have SWA in the title?

If AA was doing really well, and in the past they have, you'd be here complaining about them I'm sure....

Get a life!

Umm, I already have a life, but thanks for the suggestion. And as far as the AA comment, not sure where you're coming from there, nobody mentioned AA from what I can see... and I'm not complaining about AA or SWA or whoever, I'm just tired of you Kool Aid drinking tools who keep rah-rahing SWA and saying the legacies should just shrivel up and die. It gets old. And as far as reading threads, last time I checked this thread is about both SWA and CAL; since I work for CAL I figure I could read this thread...

As for MaryOne's comment to "go read a legacy thread", I'll reference my last sentence above; this thread is about both CAL and SWA, and CAL is considered a "legacy", whatever the hell that really means. Perhaps you could take some time off from all that chest thumping and read the thread title a bit closer next time??

 

[MarylandONE]

Perhaps a scab like yourself would read a post properly and see I never even referenced CAL as a legacy carrier. It's just a scab carrier.

 

[propjob27]

It's just a scab carrier.

I think you are talking about AirTran.

By the way, here's the scab list:

http://fracpilot.com/Scabs%20by%20Name%20May04.PDF

Its a PDF file, so you may have to "right click" it and click "save-as". My adobe reader doesn't open it automatically for some reason.

 

[MarylandONE]

I think you are talking about AirTran.

By the way, here's the scab list:

http://fracpilot.com/Scabs%20by%20Name%20May04.PDF

Its a PDF file, so you may have to "right click" it and click "save-as". My adobe reader doesn't open it automatically for some reason.

You are probably too young to remember the Eastern Scabs. Oh it's a fun time over there at CAL. When you're in the cockpit and the captain is a scab. No one will talk to them because they are ostracized from the other pilots. There is hate and more hate around there. Definitely a great environment for a new hire.

In fact I just met an FO who started in May or June who put in 8 years at CAL before he quit. That'll tell you who to work for.

 

[Boeingman]

In fact I just met an FO who started in May or June who put in 8 years at CAL before he quit. That'll tell you who to work for.

And we are very glad for you to have him. Judging by the two of you, it seems SWA's hiring standrads are slipping. Or is this you MC? I'll have to look into that.

Funny thing is we could insert the UAL brandname a few years ago on all of your asinine posts. My how times change. Hopefully SWA will enjoy years of prosperity through fuel hedging and your unbridled arrogance can continue unabated.

 

[jbDC9]

Perhaps a scab like yourself would read a post properly and see I never even referenced CAL as a legacy carrier. It's just a scab carrier.

Alrighty then, his true colors have appeared; he's run out of debate so he throws out the "scab" label.

Hey, asshole, I'm not a scab, I hired on in '97. Your arrogance is really quite astounding...

 

[propjob27]

These "Airline X or Airline Y?" threads always get ugly. I remember one about "Southwest or FedEx?" a while back. That one got bad too.

The dude who started this thread really needs to answer his own question. This thread probably isn't too helpful anymore.

 

[miles otoole]

In fact I just met an FO who started in May or June who put in 8 years at CAL before he quit. That'll tell you who to work for.

This means d1ck. I know 2 guys who quit WN to go to UAL in 2000 and have heard of many others doing the same thing. Who the f uck cares?

If the typical white collar American were to spend 3 days reading posts on flightinfo, he would probably come to the conclusion that on average, airline pilots are pretty socially retarded. It's starting to sound like "my Auburn is better than your USC." Much like you don't play on the football field, you don't have a thing to do with the success of the company other than cheering them on and of course praying things go your way. Your perspective depends upon where you sit. And this is from a pilot and son-in law of a '77 WN hire(with plenty of stock).

 

[MarylandONE]

you don't have a thing to do with the success of the company other than cheering them on and of course praying things go your way.

This is exactly why your airlines fail and ours does not.

 

[fastone]

GUYS -- This is getting out of hand... I just wanted some input and as usual this has turned into a freaking pissing contest! Enough dudes! I just asked input to look at this situation from multi perspectives, that is all... It is not about who is better than anyone... I just want to know what you guys think about sitting put in a nice plush corp job or jumping ship and risking the farm for an airline job, that is all... It is not about who or what is better in terms of companies... Now, the field has been leveled. Let the respective ideas flow with this thought in mind -- it is about risking it for the airline life or staying put in the corp. world and later seeking LUV... That is all... Cheers!