SWA or Alaska?

[Baze]

There goes the neighborhood. JenLee & SWA/FO have moved in!

I don't think hyeflyin was asking anyone to make a career decision for him. From what I gathered from his question, he wants to know how long he can expect to sit in the SWA pool.

In any case, good luck to hyeflyin in making the decision.

 

[Rickindfw]

Curious why a SWA guy recommends Alaska instead of SWA????

Because someone who comes here looking for advice about Southwest vs some other airline doesn't really know what Southwest is all about. We want people who really want to be here. Keeping the culture going that has made this airline the best after 35 years.

 

[lumax]

That is about the biggest B.S. thing I've heard. You sound like you are AS management in training. During interviews, AS wants applicants that have only applied to AS. That is why a 737 type rating can hurt your chances. Most of us applied at several airlines before getting our current job.
Yes, SWA has a good culture which is made strong by the good employee/management relations, but I can almost guarantee that most of your pilots also applied at other airlines. It was just SWA that offered the job first.

 

[Going2Baja]

go to Alaska!

Now that says A LOT!!!

 

[Going2Baja]

Because someone who comes here looking for advice about Southwest vs some other airline doesn't really know what Southwest is all about. We want people who really want to be here. Keeping the culture going that has made this airline the best after 35 years.

How does that Koolaid taste??

 

[Charlie Brown]

Good luck Tanker Clown, I hope that Airtran thing works out for you

 

[igneousy2]

Singlecoil - great post and well said. There is a wealth of information from the weekly negotiators note pad for those who care enough and take the time to read it. We see steady progress each week. As long as that continues, then I "get er done". When steady progress stops, then my attitude changes a wee bit. If we end up in mediation someday, it is far better to go there with everything done except pay. This only gives the mediator / company / ALPA one thing to hash out rather than a laundry list. Like it or not, this is the direction the negotiating comitee is taking.
Tico - guys like you scare me. Replace our negotiating committee with "hired guns"? Why is it that every airline has pilots who think that there are some laywers out there who can run in to save the day at the table. You want to hire tuff guys who know nothing about your job, but will some how be able to know what you want at the table? Replace our people who have been working on this issue 24/7 for nearly a year with some guy from Johnson & Johnson law firm? Sure that will fix it...

I disagree with your assesment. When I read the stuff the MEC puts out they do not seem to share your optimism. Bill Ayer has not backed off of his cost-neutral requirement for the contract which is something that seems unacceptable to the line pilots. At least the ones that I talk to.

Sure we'll give you 20 days off a month and make all the reserves into 4 hour call outs but if that's the case then your pay/retirement will need to be XXX to be cost neutral.

I am not at all optimistic that we are anywhere near a settlement.

 

[Rhino]

quality of life?

Get your type rating and go fly for SWA... unless you value living in SoCal and NOT commuting for your career. What value do you put on that? It all depends on you, not the rest of us on this site.

As for Alaska, as a newhire if you want LAX, you will get it. It's a junior base. It's also a co-terminal base, so trips start from Orange Co. too.

You will make more money at SWA.

 

[Tanker Clown]

Good luck Tanker Clown, I hope that Airtran thing works out for you

Thanks CB. I would have tried to get on with Song to avoid the LBB overnights, but General Lee must have black balled me. I hear the new CEO at Delta is going to resurrect Song. I can't wait. Everyone wants in on the low cost market in Atlanta. That's why SWA is going after Air Tran.

I wouldn't discount this Air Tran buy out talk. My buddy knew about the LAS domocile six months prior to the announcement. He's in the know. He said one of the main reasons SWA wants to do this is to increase their debt. I'm not sure what it really means, but he also said slowing down new hires will allow SWA to feed in all the 717 guys into training.

Makes sense to me. Looks like I missed out on a SWA interview for now, so might as well try to get in through the back door (Air Tran).

 

[ferlo]

Because someone who comes here looking for advice about Southwest vs some other airline doesn't really know what Southwest is all about. We want people who really want to be here. Keeping the culture going that has made this airline the best after 35 years.

I just threw up a little bit

 

[Green Banana]

You will make more money at SWA.

All the airlines are only as good as there current contract. You can never say this without it being a complete wild a$$ guess. FedEx, PanAm, UAL, AA, SWA, they have all been at the bottom and the top. It is a long ride. If you make a decision based on a current short term contract, the only thing I can guarantee is that you will be disappointed.

 

[hyeflyin]

Thanks guys for all the great feedback. It's good to hear the good and bad for both places. Will help making a decision a little easier. Both of these companies on their own are a great place to be. It's a good situation to be in but it's definitly harder to choose than I thought. It looks like I am not the only one with the same issue. Got a guy on the other board with the same problem. At the end of the day, I just got to do what's best for my family. Thanks guys!

 

[Going2Baja]

As for Alaska, as a newhire if you want LAX, you will get it. It's a junior base. It's also a co-terminal base, so trips start from Orange Co. too.

You will make more money at SWA.

I've been in LA for close to a year and have only moved up a few numbers. I'll be on reserve for close to two years I'm guessing. If in ANC I could now hold a line. The problem so I'm told is that there is nowhere to grow the base due to lack of gates. Most of all future growth is going to be in ANC.

As for pay....Well all I can say is we'll see. SWA was the bottom paid 737 company pre 9/11 and now that everyone else has taken pay cuts they look pretty good. I think you really need to look at the distant future to decide where you want to be. In 20 years I'm guessing the SWA will be the same airline only larger. I bet Alaska will have merged with a legacy and you will then have a choice of heavy international flying of they same type that we are doing now. I for one never wanted to work as hard at the SWA pilots do and I never applied. But I can say that my friends that are now Capt's at SWA do enjoy the lightened workload and the heafty pay check.

Good luck...Baja.

 

[The Victors]

another thing that no one has mentioned is the major difference between swa and the rest. At swa you, as a pilot, are considered an ASSET. Everywhere else, a liability. the pay is good , but not the most important thing to consider.

 

[737ski]

At SWA, the pay is great. As Gordon Gecko said, "greed is good". Or, if you want QOL, you can have that, too. They pay you for working hard, not slacking off in a hotel room. I've never seen a hotel room as nice as my own house. I'll pay for my vacations, thank you.

BTW, on pace to make >72k in my 1st year living in domicile. ???'s

 

[Going2Baja]

I've never seen a hotel room as nice as my own house. I'll pay for my vacations, thank you.

BTW, on pace to make >72k in my 1st year living in domicile. ???'s

VERY good point.....

 

[737ski]

Don't get me wrong, it is two different jobs--commuting & living in domicile... With any airline...

 

[SWA/FO]

As for pay....Well all I can say is we'll see. SWA was the bottom paid 737 company pre 9/11 and now that everyone else has taken pay cuts they look pretty good.

Lets get it right, our pay came up too...

 

[MINIME]

Lets get it right, our pay came up too...

Agreed,

And let's not forget that for the equipment that LUV flies, they are still the highest paid and probably would be regardless of paycuts at the Legacies. LUV does not have heavies so you have to consider that as well. Heavy speculation on my part of course.:nuts:

 

[Mea25000]

Wrong… Southwest new contract just has just barely kept up with the cost of living. At best they have right now a three percent raise compaired to there last contract if you factor in inflation. Six years ago Us Airways, United, Delta all were paid back then about 10% more then Southwest is making right now. Four years ago Alaska contract was about 5% above where Southwest’s contract is now The rest of us just suck and Southwest keeps working for the same rate.

Alaska 04 This was middle of the road when it was signed

CA FO

1 184 52
2 185 92
3 186 112
4 188 118
5 189 121
6 190 125
7 191 128
8 192 131
9 194 134
10 195 137
11 196 138
12 197 139

 

[noperf]

At least LUV kept up with inflation.

ALK 12 year Captain rate today is the equivalent of ALK 12 year Captain pay in 1993.

Also, as I recall, the LUV pilots defferred pay raises in 1995 in lieu of stock options.

And of course no Captain at Alaska has, after twelvth year, recieved a pay raise.

 

[thardy]

I like to wear dresses.

 

[noperf]

one thing at a time, one thing at a time

 

[MINIME]

I like to wear dresses.

Good,

Hopefully one less person I have to compete with for the SENORITAS.

 

[thardy]

Sorry MINIPENIS, I like women too.

 

[igneousy2]

Agreed,

And let's not forget that for the equipment that LUV flies, they are still the highest paid and probably would be regardless of paycuts at the Legacies. LUV does not have heavies so you have to consider that as well. Heavy speculation on my part of course.:nuts:

What are you talking about? SWA was never at the top of the pack until 9/11. It was always okay but never anything to write home about. Of course you have to consider the heavies - it's about potential career earnings. Would you fly at a company just because they have the highest paid Cessna 172 drivers around?

Another thing to consider is retirement - Alaska still has a well funded A-fund. The company is trying to get rid of it but with other carriers while in bankruptcy getting 12%+ DC in return I would expect that if it didn't stay in place all together it would be a very high DC. I personally would rather have a 18-20% DC then the current A fund.

If I lived in an AS domicile I would choose AS hands down over SWA and never look back, if it meant a commute for either I would probably choose SWA but it wouldn't be as easy a decision as others make it seem to be.

Don't get too hung up on the pay difference - I think that AS is at the bottom going to move up where SWA is either going to stay somewhat stagnant or even regress a little. There business plan does not allow them to have the most expensive anything for long.

If you are like me (early 30's) you will be able to progress nicely through your career as the majority of pilots were hired here in their early-mid 30's so there won't be a hideous number younger and senior to you. At SWA, unless you are in your mid 20's there will be a LOT of guys younger and senior to you. At AS I am guranteed to end my career in the top 50, at SWA I would be lucky to finish in the top 300.

Good luck

 

[Skyboy722]

If you are like me (early 30's) you will be able to progress nicely through your career as the majority of pilots were hired here in their early-mid 30's so there won't be a hideous number younger and senior to you. At SWA, unless you are in your mid 20's there will be a LOT of guys younger and senior to you. At AS I am guranteed to end my career in the top 50, at SWA I would be lucky to finish in the top 300.

Good luck

You SURE about that? Also, consider percentages, not #'s. Probably pretty close. SWA average Newhire age = 39.

 

[ivauir]

Does Alaska Air go to Lubbock? If it does NOT, then go to Alaska. (You know I know it doesn't go there. Ah yeah) Seriously, LBB is a sorry town. Fly for Alaska and go see Sitka, AK. It is much prettier and the girls (or girl up there) are cuter.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Yawn .... get a new gig.

 

[poor2thecore]

You SURE about that? Also, consider percentages, not #'s. Probably pretty close. SWA average Newhire age = 39.

I'd imagine the military types bump that number up. If it was purely civilian it'd probably be lower? Just a guess...?

 

[LeonPhelps]

Does Alaska Air go to Lubbock? If it does NOT, then go to Alaska. (You know I know it doesn't go there. Ah yeah) Seriously, LBB is a sorry town. Fly for Alaska and go see Sitka, AK. It is much prettier and the girls (or girl up there) are cuter.


Bye Bye--General Lee

Au contrair bonjur! No one knows ladies, like Leon Phelpsth, and let me tell you General...the ladiesth in Lubbock are hotter than a Delta customer stranded in Atlanta...wooooooweeeeeee!!! I mean, I know they don't have hairy armpits about the Parisian ladiesth you so anxiously espousth to luuuuv, but mmmmhmmmm...Lubbock is a HOT BED for young hussies!!!

Now, back to my regularly scheduled glass of courvossier!