SWA hiring and international growth. From Gary

[Lear70]

Lear... Seriously man- you don't allow any thread get hijacked into a AWA/AAA debate but it's alright when it's your SLI?

Moderator hat on:

Just for clarification:


First, it's not an AWA/AAA debate, it's a AAI/SWA debate.

Second, I allow plenty of threads on AWA/AAA, I just don't allow thread creep from, say, a UAL/CAL thread from turning into an AWA/AAA debate, or talking about pension reform and someone goes off about merger/integration for another airline.

This is a AAI/SWA thread. As long as members respect the rule, it goes whatever direction the posters want with it, no matter how long it goes or even if it jumps the shark and starts getting ridiculous.

/mod

Nothing is going to get solved here. That's why I decided last night to answer a few questions and move on. I won't rehash questions not debate the same question with 5 different people. It's just not worth my time. I have the way I feel about things on here, as does everyone else. I believe I have an open mind about what would be fair, but from what I'm hearing on here, there are much fewer people at Southwest with that kind of an open mind, which is disappointing.

I hope that changes in the coming months. Best of luck to everyone.

 

[Lear70]

I need to go over our M and A comments, but the way I understood things is that per our contract, the SLI will not seriously begin until SWAPA has a transition agreement with SWA. From the time the transaction is closed (sometime during the first half of next year for all the regulatory stuff), there is a two year window for AT to be operated separately in order to conclude an SLI (per the SWAPA contract). During that time AT would operate under the current AT contract and work rules. AT pilots wouldn't receive the pay or work rules until they became SWAPA pilots, which would occur after an SLI.

There may be something in the AT contract that says something different from your side, but the way I understood things is that AT pilots wouldn't receive SWAPA payscales until they became SWAPA pilots.

It depends ENTIRELY on the Bridge Agreement that is negotiated between SWAPA and SWA management. That bridge agreement details the timelines for each piece of the merger puzzle. It can also add new bennies or perks for SOUTHWEST pilots as an incentive for things to transition quickly and smoothly.

For instance, in the DAL/NWA merger, pay was bumped up for the NWA pilots fairly early after DOCC, well before full integration of the operation was complete. It seems to be established practice that way.

Also, there's nothing that says the SLI can't be worked on simultaneously while the DOJ is hashing things out. In practice, SWAPA and AAI ALPA already have a couple dates set up this month to meet, with probably several in Nov and Dec then picking up in earnest 1st of the year. As I mentioned before, I would be shocked if it took the full 24 months, with 12-18 months being more likely and DOCC being sometime in late Feb / early Mar barring some kind of DOJ interference, which is unlikely given how small route overlap we fly and that we won't represent a monopoly, being the #3 carrier in terms of combined size in the U.S.

That means AAI pilots may have to work under AAI rules and pay for a year to year and a half, OR we may start creeping up to Southwest rates fairly quickly after DOCC (4-6 months). It all depends on the Bridge Agreement, which is why we're pushing hard for our contract still, recognizing it may be a long while and we're not willing to live under these terms for that long. Our message board and the last SPSC meeting right after the Southwest announcement were pretty clear. Our focus is our own contract. The Southwest integration is just too far out to sit and wait.

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

We get paid trips per pay. I cant remember the exact formula. I get a guarantee of 90 tfp per month on reserve. They fly me about 55 to 75 block hours a month. I blow my guarantee mostly every month. I usually get paid about 105-112 tfp a month on average, and thats working 15 days a month. If you look on ACP, put 85-100 in the credit section that would be a close dollar amount.

Now if you hold a line then you can really make some bank because of the great flexibility in the schedule and what our contract brings you and I. I know that your negotiation team will be impressed with the details.

The trips are real productive. The average duty day is 8.50 hours a day. It's awesome. Work hard play hard.

Cool.

Yes, I am aware of the TFP formula, and it makes an outright comparison of pay fairly difficult, so I just used the hourly rate formula on APC - most people agree it's pretty close, within 1-2%.

I work hard when I'm at work, but my happy place is 17-18 days off a month (I have a 4 year old, I like spending time with him, and I have a social life, too). Therefore I bid low-time high-productivity - max days off. Credit right at 1,000 hours a year, and will try to do the same thing there.

From what I hear and have seen with my friends schedules that are at Southwest, those kind of trips are there, too, especially as a line holder. Good stuff, for sure.

 

[texman]

Lear,

I know about the kid thing and social life thing. I cant wait to get off reserve. The good thing about our reserve we don't have to sit airport stby. Brother I will say this is going to be huge for all. I do see something brewing on the horizon bigger than the 737-8. The talk is that GK is going to expand to Hawaii and South America. We bring the west and yall bring the east. Let's get er done!

 

[shagadelic]

Just for clarification, that last post was not Shag...but a friend who I gave my password to. I told him not to post...lol, he didn't listen to me. Just sayin.

 

[IAHERJ]

Lear,

I know about the kid thing and social life thing. I cant wait to get off reserve. The good thing about our reserve we don't have to sit airport stby. Brother I will say this is going to be huge for all. I do see something brewing on the horizon bigger than the 737-8. The talk is that GK is going to expand to Hawaii and South America. We bring the west and yall bring the east. Let's get er done!

Is that what the "talk" is? I'm assuming you guys are getting 787's or something for this type of flying as well huh? I mean, if Gary wants to conquer South America and Hawaii and all, "get en er done" will require more than 737's of any size...Big things brewing.....haha

Attention, Attention all pilots flying for Delta, American, United, Alaska, U.S. Airways: Please update your resumes as soon as possible. "Gary" is taking over the airline industry with his fleet of Mach .74 cruising 737's capable of 40 knot taxi speeds......We are all doomed.....Big things are on the horizon and if you are not on board with "Gary" you better get out of the way!

 

[spciii]

Is that what the "talk" is? I'm assuming you guys are getting 787's or something for this type of flying as well huh? I mean, if Gary wants to conquer South America and Hawaii and all, "get en er done" will require more than 737's of any size...Big things brewing.....haha

Attention, Attention all pilots flying for Delta, American, United, Alaska, U.S. Airways: Please update your resumes as soon as possible. "Gary" is taking over the airline industry with his fleet of Mach .74 cruising 737's capable of 40 knot taxi speeds......We are all doomed.....Big things are on the horizon and if you are not on board with "Gary" you better get out of the way!

So I guess you'll have nothing to worry about with little ole Southwestern Trailways in EWR then.

 

[IAHERJ]

Never said I was worried about SWA in EWR. Never made a negative comment about that when it was announced. In fact, there is a good segment of the New Jersey population that I think will feel a tad more "comfortable" hitching a ride on a SWA airplane. Think Jersey Shore....

 

[JetDude]

/rant on

After reading through this thread, I want my mouse click(s) back. I feel totally ripped off! Lots of emotion. Waaayyyyy to much conjecture. Nothing but polarization. Forums tend to cater to the vocal 5% with agendas who spew vitriolic diatribe often ungrounded in fact. Unfortunately that's the way our society has gone over the last 20 years, and it is most evident in politics. If I don't get my way I'm burning the place down!!

Here's an idea... let's all grow up. The acquisition/merger/(insert favorite term here) is a fact. The need for SLI is a fact. Both companies have M/A teams and legal counsel (fact). Let's see what they come up with. Their creativity to smoothly integrate might surprise most. Maybe not...but to second guess their efforts before they even begin is asinine!

In the end, one list and one company will be the result. As in life, whether you/we/I are happy with it is up to us.

Thanks for your time.

/rant off

 

[Whataburger]

Is that what the "talk" is? I'm assuming you guys are getting 787's or something for this type of flying as well huh? I mean, if Gary wants to conquer South America and Hawaii and all, "get en er done" will require more than 737's of any size...Big things brewing.....haha

Attention, Attention all pilots flying for Delta, American, United, Alaska, U.S. Airways: Please update your resumes as soon as possible. "Gary" is taking over the airline industry with his fleet of Mach .74 cruising 737's capable of 40 knot taxi speeds......We are all doomed.....Big things are on the horizon and if you are not on board with "Gary" you better get out of the way!

Are all your furloughed pilots going to get back on line before the merger?

So Alaska's 737s aren't working out for Hawaii?

 

[IAHERJ]

Are all your furloughed pilots going to get back on line before the merger?

So Alaska's 737s aren't working out for Hawaii?

I know you work at SWA and thus are living in a bubble where every bit of news involves SW and SW only info but our merger closed on Friday therefore the class dates our furloughed pilots are receiving this week for classes in the Fall and Spring are not going to get them online prior to last Friday.

As far as Alaska's 737 routes to Hawaii are concerned, I'm sure they are working out well. They offer a 2 class product with quality food service on their routes to Hawaii as well as their domestic and Mexico routes. I'm sure they are doing quite well. I'm not on here touting my airline's world domination nor am I spouting off about our merger with United. You won't read any posts from United or Continental pilots telling each other just how lucky each other are to be a part of the new "United". What you read are concerns over the joint contract both sides are working hard to hammer out over the next year. A contract that will be built on by American and Delta over the next few years. A contract that will help build back this profession to what it should be. I have nothing against the pilots of SWA. I think SWA is a great airline. I've used SWA many times as a paying passenger as well as a jumpseater in the past. As a former AirTran pilot I do take issue with the attitudes I've seen on FI over the past week. I've seen the SWA arrogance but this past week it has been taken to another level. I'm glad SWA pays well. I'm glad there is a "culture" that your pilots enjoy over there. I do feel that come of this "culture" loses some credibility when it is thrown around on FI in the fashion it has over the past week in regards to the AirTran merger.

 

[Lear70]

Lear,

I know about the kid thing and social life thing. I cant wait to get off reserve. The good thing about our reserve we don't have to sit airport stby. Brother I will say this is going to be huge for all. I do see something brewing on the horizon bigger than the 737-8. The talk is that GK is going to expand to Hawaii and South America. We bring the west and yall bring the east. Let's get er done!

That's what I'm talkin' about! :beer:

 

[jonjuan]

/rant on

After reading through this thread, I want my mouse click(s) back. I feel totally ripped off! Lots of emotion. Waaayyyyy to much conjecture. Nothing but polarization. Forums tend to cater to the vocal 5% with agendas who spew vitriolic diatribe often ungrounded in fact. Unfortunately that's the way our society has gone over the last 20 years, and it is most evident in politics. If I don't get my

In the end, one list and one company will be the result. As in life, whether you/we/I are happy with it is up to us.

Thanks for your time.

/rant off

thanks for wasting 10 minits of my life.

 

[IAHERJ]

thanks for wasting 10 minits of my life.

Is that longer or shorter than a minute?

 

[StopNTSing]

I know you work at SWA and thus are living in a bubble where every bit of news involves SW and SW only info but our merger closed on Friday therefore the class dates our furloughed pilots are receiving this week for classes in the Fall and Spring are not going to get them online prior to last Friday.

As far as Alaska's 737 routes to Hawaii are concerned, I'm sure they are working out well. They offer a 2 class product with quality food service on their routes to Hawaii as well as their domestic and Mexico routes. I'm sure they are doing quite well. I'm not on here touting my airline's world domination nor am I spouting off about our merger with United. You won't read any posts from United or Continental pilots telling each other just how lucky each other are to be a part of the new "United". What you read are concerns over the joint contract both sides are working hard to hammer out over the next year. A contract that will be built on by American and Delta over the next few years. A contract that will help build back this profession to what it should be. I have nothing against the pilots of SWA. I think SWA is a great airline. I've used SWA many times as a paying passenger as well as a jumpseater in the past. As a former AirTran pilot I do take issue with the attitudes I've seen on FI over the past week. I've seen the SWA arrogance but this past week it has been taken to another level. I'm glad SWA pays well. I'm glad there is a "culture" that your pilots enjoy over there. I do feel that come of this "culture" loses some credibility when it is thrown around on FI in the fashion it has over the past week in regards to the AirTran merger.

Total # SWA pilots: 5878

Total # (alleged) SWA pilots posting on FI w/"attitude": ~10


I'm just sayin....