Swa hawaii update

[fr8doggie]

Fr8- I'm not defensive
I wouldn't want to be any taller in our seats and miss first class just for that reason-
But I've never understood that argument.
When an airplane has first class seats, the vast majority of seats are still coach with less pitch than what we have.
So most customer experiences are worse than ours on any long haul flight. Especially united. If this were a Singapore pilot levying these critiques it'd be one thing. Dude flies for the worst airline in the US for the last decade. Having a dozen or two people living it up in lay flat beds and free drinks doesn't make up for 200 in the back with less room than SWA , plus an overall sh/tty experience had by all off the plane.

No argument. My initial post was maybe slightly off target as I was responding to Howard. I believe high dollar business travelers want first class and amenities. Slaquer5 seems to think hot pants will suffice. I don't think so. Not for 5+ hour flights.

I think you will do well in the Caribbean and Central America. Lots of leisure travel and people visiting relatives.

You are going to have to change your product if you want to compete successfully in the far int'l. At least if you want to attract business travel. That's all I'm saying.

 

[HowardBorden]

Flopgut you really crack me up!

You should really pay more attention to what is going on in your own backyard. Perhaps your $1000 would be better spent developing a contingency plan to keep high value international passengers choosing IAH as opposed to Hobby in the next couple of years.

Of course I do. How's your first/business class seating for those flights south?

Don't get me wrong. I hope you guys do well in your int'l endeavors. I just don't think you'll be hauling a lot of high-end business travelers.

I said "high value" not "high-end". I was speaking of the value of the revenue produced from international travelers. They are indeed very valuable to the United profit margin.

We probably won't have a huge impact on "high-end" travelers which I would identify as frequent travelers mostly for business purposes where they themselves aren't footing the bill for the travel. Those travelers are used to either having a first class ticket purchased for them or spending frequent flier miles to upgrade. They are tied to one airline because that is where they have amassed many miles affording them "elite" status and all the benefits that spending thousands upon thousands of dollars with one airline will procure.

That being said, we will have an effect on all the rest of the travelers, which is certainly the majority in my opinion. Many, many folks travel for leisure or to visit family or even on a more limited basis for business. Many passengers, including business travelers are extremely cost conscious and will ultimately search out the best price and the most convenient airport. In many cases that option will be Southwest Airlines departing out of Hobby. That is the exact reason United battled tooth and nail to prevent SWA from flying internationally out of HOU. It had zero to do with what was in the best interest of the Houston community and was wholly aimed at the stopping the hemorrhage of high value international passengers to Southwest.

 

[fr8doggie]

I said "high value" not "high-end". I was speaking of the value of the revenue produced from international travelers. They are indeed very valuable to the United profit margin.

We probably won't have a huge impact on "high-end" travelers which I would identify as frequent travelers mostly for business purposes where they themselves aren't footing the bill for the travel. Those travelers are used to either having a first class ticket purchased for them or spending frequent flier miles to upgrade. They are tied to one airline because that is where they have amassed many miles affording them "elite" status and all the benefits that spending thousands upon thousands of dollars with one airline will procure.

That being said, we will have an effect on all the rest of the travelers, which is certainly the majority in my opinion. Many, many folks travel for leisure or to visit family or even on a more limited basis for business. Many passengers, including business travelers are extremely cost conscious and will ultimately search out the best price and the most convenient airport. In many cases that option will be Southwest Airlines departing out of Hobby. That is the exact reason United battled tooth and nail to prevent SWA from flying internationally out of HOU. It had zero to do with what was in the best interest of the Houston community and was wholly aimed at the stopping the hemorrhage of high value international passengers to Southwest.

Hi value. Yes you are right.

Where are you guys serving the intl arena right now? Not including the stuff AT is still flying.

 

[waveflyer]

Fr8
I don't see us changing until we expand beyond the reach of a 737-

Get bigger planes....I wouldn't be averse to some first class product- but that's a long way away no matter

 

[fr8doggie]

Fr8
I don't see us changing until we expand beyond the reach of a 737-

Get bigger planes....I wouldn't be averse to some first class product- but that's a long way away no matter

About 4.5 years or less if I recall correctly.

Will you be selling HA's A330s to DL?

 

[Flopgut]

Yep still an FO
And still in the bottom half

In all sincerity, I'm sorry to hear that. Don't know what else to say.

 

[HowardBorden]

Hi value. Yes you are right.

Where are you guys serving the intl arena right now? Not including the stuff AT is still flying.

SWA operates to: Cabo San Lucas and Cancun, Mexico; Nassau, the Bahamas; Aruba; and Montego Bay, Jamaica. The last two AirTran destinations Mexico City and Punta Cana will come to SWA November 2nd.

 

[waveflyer]

In all sincerity, I'm sorry to hear that. Don't know what else to say.

8 years as an FO making $160k on a a good schedule since day 1 and you feel sorry?

Feel bad for the places where one has to upgrade to get ahead

 

[Roomwithaview]

Clean deal!?

No, it's not really like that completely. I want the process to be a clean deal. That's all. I think ALPA needs to restate that membership is important, and not try to cut a deal with SWA/GK. Secondly I'd want my fellow ALPA guys to know that if you're not taking the first offer out of GK, then don't plan on doing anything but arbitration. (Do not take the 2nd offer!) That's pbly going to inflate GK's first offer.

Hawaii and the Pacific is complicated, on a lot of levels. The people are not going to like being made to feel they lost their airline. They still miss Aloha. I don't think SWA could buy Hawaiian and be well received. I think UAL/CAL might be able to. *might*

5% is an ok assessment for a regional or any pilot.

You mean like AWA/USAir?

Yeah, that went well!

uke:

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

Wave,
QOL supersedes anything else, you gate to choose what days you fly,where you want to fly and who with (do not fly list), beats being on reserve or working weekends and travelling thru 3 time zones

 

[Flopgut]

8 years as an FO making $160k on a a good schedule since day 1 and you feel sorry?

Yeah, I do. I'm mostly thinking of how retirement age really screwed things up over there.

But if you're happy with everything, great! Doesn't really seem to follow with your complaints on SLI or you hinting about new airplanes.

 

[nimtz]

This thread helps explain why some of this board's frequent LUV posters were complaining of being victims of frequent SLAM CLICKING.

 

[waveflyer]

This thread helps explain why some of this board's frequent LUV posters were complaining of being victims of frequent SLAM CLICKING.

That's a nice one liner, but nobody was complaining about being a victim of slam clicking, but about senior pilots slam clicking their new hires.

Nice one though-
Since we all know where you work and slam clicking is the norm.

There isn't one crew member at SWA that has been slam clicked more in a year than any legacy pilot gets in a quarter.

Fail-
But feel free to dredge that one up
There's great getting laid advise in it.
rolls eyes at myself

 

[Jim]

I'm not so sure that this is true in all cases. Doesn't the operation have to be merged with the same management, etc?

Yes

I think it would probably apply if SWA bought HA, but didn't when DL bought Endeavor because they are operates separately.

I agree

 

[nimtz]

That's a nice one liner, but nobody was complaining about being a victim of slam clicking, but about senior pilots slam clicking their new hires.

Nice one though-
Since we all know where you work and slam clicking is the norm.

There isn't one crew member at SWA that has been slam clicked more in a year than any legacy pilot gets in a quarter.

Fail-
But feel free to dredge that one up
There's great getting laid advise in it.
rolls eyes at myself

Well wave I fly exclusively day trips so my slam clicking vicitim status is either 0 or 100%. After far too many speeches on the coming impeachment of Obama, the evils of ex wives, and the sacredness of fire arm ownership, I'm quite content to never see most airline capts outside of the cockpit. If it means missing out on detailed discussions on hypothetical merger ISL resolution, I'm cool with that.

 

[waveflyer]

Well wave I fly exclusively day trips so my slam clicking vicitim status is either 0 or 100%. After far too many speeches on the coming impeachment of Obama, the evils of ex wives, and the sacredness of fire arm ownership, I'm quite content to never see most airline capts outside of the cockpit. If it means missing out on detailed discussions on hypothetical merger ISL resolution, I'm cool with that.

Well, then I am jealous of your turn life
I only wish, but do as many as I can-
And I'll drink to that!:beer:
Politics at the bar is worse than work talk

 

[Dan Roman]

Well, then I am jealous of your turn life
I only wish, but do as many as I can-
And I'll drink to that!:beer:
Politics at the bar is worse than work talk

True statement that!...... politics in the cockpit is even worse, I'm quite pleased that most people I fly with really don't know what my politics are, don't care nor do I care how they vote either.

 

[Roomwithaview]

This has to be..

..the funniest quote in this thread:

And BTW as Dan always says, you would piss off every local in Hawaii and their loyality to Hawaiian would not transfer to SWA. Disregard that all you want but it is a big part of the state's culture and locals buy a huge amount of tickets to the mainland on Hawaiian. It's not good pissing off a large portion of your customer base.

Because instead of hearing a rude ass "MAHALO!" when they're getting hosed they'll hear, "Bless your heart!"

:crying:

 

[jonjuan]

Well wave I fly exclusively day trips so my slam clicking vicitim status is either 0 or 100%. After far too many speeches on the coming impeachment of Obama, the evils of ex wives, and the sacredness of fire arm ownership, I'm quite content to never see most airline capts outside of the cockpit. If it means missing out on detailed discussions on hypothetical merger ISL resolution, I'm cool with that.

I guess it does take more time for you to wash out your vagina then before the next days trip.

 

[jonjuan]

Of course I do. How's your first/business class seating for those flights south?

Don't get me wrong. I hope you guys do well in your int'l endeavors. I just don't think you'll be hauling a lot of high-end business travelers.

LMFAO......post of the thread.

 

[Dan Roman]

..the funniest quote in this thread:



Because instead of hearing a rude ass "MAHALO!" when they're getting hosed they'll hear, "Bless your heart!"

:crying:

Hawaiians rep for providing good service is head and shoulders above anyone else between the mainland and Hawaii. Our Flight Attendants are outstanding. Ironically, since you are SWA, so are yours. But the perspective that Hawaiian provides a rude ass "MAHALO" is so far off base it" ridiculous. The overwhelming local perspective (and frequent flyers from the mainland) is Hawaiian is in a league of it's own.

 

[Dan Roman]

..the funniest quote in this thread:



Because instead of hearing a rude ass "MAHALO!" when they're getting hosed they'll hear, "Bless your heart!"

:crying:

You're perspective is actually a good example of a type of ignorance that is considered particularly irritating over here.... outsiders that don't know what they are talking about but willing to sound off anyway.
For many reasons my point that very few if any would prefer SWA over HA is true, your perspective that it's laughable shows just how little you know. Let me sum it up for you. With Hawaiian the cliche that you are in Hawaii when you start your flight rather than when you land is actually true. People love our service. Yet you think a LCC 737 from SWA staffed with people that know nothing about Hawaii (as you have demonstrated so well) and probably will be making the occasional inappropriate PA would somehow be competitive with us?
Look, I'm not bashing SWA, SWA is good at what it does. But it certainly would not be in anything near our league at serving Hawaii.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Romo

You're perspective is actually a good example of a type of ignorance that is considered particularly irritating over here.... outsiders that don't know what they are talking about but willing to sound off anyway.
For many reasons my point that very few if any would prefer SWA over HA is true, your perspective that it's laughable shows just how little you know. Let me sum it up for you. With Hawaiian the cliche that you are in Hawaii when you start your flight rather than when you land is actually true. People love our service. Yet you think a LCC 737 from SWA staffed with people that know nothing about Hawaii (as you have demonstrated so well) and probably will be making the occasional inappropriate PA would somehow be competitive with us?
Look, I'm not bashing SWA, SWA is good at what it does. But it certainly would not be in anything near our league at serving Hawaii.

I witnessed your (oversold) 717 service to the islands out of PHNL and I'm not talking about your FA's, I'm talking about your ops people and your gate agents.

I'm certain there is brand loyalty with HA just like there is with every company. However, when the reality of a buyout finally takes hold, it will be just like PHX and AWA. Or, NWA and DTW or MSP. Additionally, if/when we are the sole LCC (translation-the only logical choice in town) you'll get a chance to witness first hand who the brahs will flock to. Especially when the marketing campaign makes it clear we are the cheapest.

 

[redflyer65]

I'm certain there is brand loyalty with HA just like there is with every company. However, when the reality of a buyout finally takes hold, it will be just like PHX and AWA. Or, NWA and DTW or MSP.

This is exactly right. I can understand Dan, Jim, et al not wanting to be bought and go down the long road of morphing into something else. But this BS about how the people of Hawaii would do this or that is crazy. It's an island. Limited choices and you take the one that has a good price and good service.

I'm not disparaging HAL's service. I've heard good things but never used them personally. But in the end if SW or UAL or brand X buys them....the people of Hawaii aren't going to riot in the streets like Ferguson, MO. I'm sorry...ain't going to happen. Would many be sad to see it go away? Absolutely..and then life would go on...

 

[Jim]

....Especially when the marketing campaign makes it clear we are the cheapest.

http://blogs.wsj.com/middleseat/201...snt-cheapest-most-of-the-time-study-confirms/

It is well known Hawaiian does not have the cheapest fares to Hawaii, yet we keep our planes full and people keep buying our tickets. Not everyone wants to fly "Greyhound".

BTW, your pax may have their bags fly free to Hawaii but SWA won't be flying them for free. In the winter especially they will be paying Hawaiian and the other non-737 airlines to fly the bags out for them. Or they will be limiting the pax on the plane. Or maybe they will be diverting to Hilo for gas and even returning to the west coast at times.

BTW - ask Mesa/Go! how pissing off the locals helped them. They flew almost empty despite lower prices than Hawaiian.

 

[waveflyer]

Hawaiians rep for providing good service is head and shoulders above anyone else between the mainland and Hawaii. Our Flight Attendants are outstanding. Ironically, since you are SWA, so are yours. But the perspective that Hawaiian provides a rude ass "MAHALO" is so far off base it" ridiculous. The overwhelming local perspective (and frequent flyers from the mainland) is Hawaiian is in a league of it's own.

But!
If a SWA pilot posts something like this they are arrogant beyond belief

 

[fr8doggie]

But!

If a SWA pilot posts something like this they are arrogant beyond belief

They already did. Reference post #108.

 

[Dan Roman]

I witnessed your (oversold) 717 service to the islands out of PHNL and I'm not talking about your FA's, I'm talking about your ops people and your gate agents.

I'm certain there is brand loyalty with HA just like there is with every company. However, when the reality of a buyout finally takes hold, it will be just like PHX and AWA. Or, NWA and DTW or MSP. Additionally, if/when we are the sole LCC (translation-the only logical choice in town) you'll get a chance to witness first hand who the brahs will flock to. Especially when the marketing campaign makes it clear we are the cheapest.

The cheapest eh? The seat mile costs on the A330 are much lower than a 737 to Hawaii. A 767 is also lower. SWA can't compete on cost in a head to head battle, if we were breaking even at a certain fare, you would be losing money. That doesn't take into the fact that SWA would have a huge pool of frequent fliers wanting to go to Hawaii. With the amount of people you carry domestically that would want to use their miles you would have two choices, limit the seats on your little 737's to the point that you would piss off a lot of people or just operate with a lot of frequent fliers and very little revenue.
That said, LCC's don't do well to Hawaii. Look at Allegiant, they fell flat on their face. Everyone that tries to be the "cheap" carrier to Hawaii fails, not just Allegiant, but the list goes on and on from ATA, Pacific East Air, Air Hawaii etc. As Jim said, the Mesa/ Go debacle was just the most recent failure of LCC's failing inter-island. Again, many have tried, but all have failed, so your little "logical choice" comment is not only arrogant, but wrong.

 

[Dan Roman]

I witnessed your (oversold) 717 service to the islands out of PHNL and I'm not talking about your FA's, I'm talking about your ops people and your gate agents.

.

Btw, one thing about Hawaii, if you are a jerk a lot of people here don't have any problem being rude to you. An arrogant pass rider/ jumpseater probably could, in fact feel the wrath of a gate agent. If your nice, they generally are very nice, if you are not, they can be pretty harsh.
I've heard a lot of people say how well they were treated on Hawaiian because most people are nice, but if you are jerk, you do make yourself a target and could very well feel it.
Again if you have a problem with Hawaiian the cause is probably right there in your bathroom mirror.

 

[HowardBorden]

Yet you think a LCC 737 from SWA staffed with people that know nothing about Hawaii (as you have demonstrated so well) and probably will be making the occasional inappropriate PA would somehow be competitive with us?

I have no idea if SWA will be competitive with anyone in the Hawaii market, we don't fly there.

What I do know is folks will flock to a cheaper product, that has been proven time and time again.

Hawaiians are consumers just like everyone else. Brand loyalty did nothing to save Aloha airlines according to CEO David Banmiller. "Aloha Airlines was founded in 1946 to give Hawaii's people a choice in inter-island air transportation," he said. "Unfortunately, unfair competition has succeeded in driving us out of business, bringing to an end a 61-year-old company with a proud legacy of serving millions of travelers in the true spirit of Aloha."

I doubt many will claim GO! had a superior product, but in the end they developed enough of a following to put Aloha out of business.