SWA goes after RJs again

[Nindiri]

No nindiri-
We do need a better contract with improvements-
But pcl just doesn't know what he's talking about.

Oops, sorry Wave, I wasn't really aiming at you there, we just happened to post at nearly the same time. I was actually referring to no one in particular, just this attitude that we have the most awesomest contract ever, when in reality it's pretty average and needs improvements. We need to stop doing GK's job for him.

 

[HowardBorden]

Ah-
Well, lots of commutes have no such red-eyes- but I get you

Yes, I am extremely fortunate in that regard. And in the interest of full disclosure, I misspoke when I said I commute home on the day my trip ends. Technically, the first of my two red eye options actually departs at 12:10am so it actually departs the day after my trip ends. But either way I am responsible for no hotels on my own dime.

 

[General Lee]

Yes, I am extremely fortunate in that regard. And in the interest of full disclosure, I misspoke when I said I commute home on the day my trip ends. Technically, the first of my two red eye options actually departs at 12:10am so it actually departs the day after my trip ends. But either way I am responsible for no hotels on my own dime.

So, you take Spirit to MSP from LAS at 1210am? Which nights usually?



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

What's up with delta creeps stalkers the last few days?
Why don't you and scoot just stalk each other

 

[General Lee]

What's up with delta creeps stalkers the last few days?
Why don't you and scoot just stalk each other

Huh? So Howie lives in MSP, no biggie. He already said in previous posts that he was LAS based, and not many other SWA hubs have allnight commute ability. Pretty easy to figure out, if you're an absolute genius. You're welcome!



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[HowardBorden]

Huh? So Howie lives in MSP, no biggie. He already said in previous posts that he was LAS based, and not many other SWA hubs have allnight commute ability. Pretty easy to figure out, if you're an absolute genius. You're welcome!

Wrong again smart guy. You got the right half of the country, but wrong base.

 

[ron burgundy]

Cool.
A thread started as RJ's..SCOPE issues, turned into .."my watch, my company, my W2, my days off"!

For a detailed oriented group..Ya don't seem to grasp much!

 

[PCL_128]

Prove that one out a little more - how would lowering our rigs make better schedules. If there are other ways to skin that car- please demonstrate.

It's not about lowering the rig, it's about eliminating the min day and going to purely an average day. The average day and the rigs will ensure the efficiency, but a min calendar day or duty period minimum over 4 hours will make it impossible for the pairing generator to spit out commutable pairings on a consistent basis. Your point-to-point network actually makes it easier for the pairing generator to create efficient trips that are commutable, but you're artificially constraining it with the min day. The job of the pairing generator is to spit out a solution that saves the company the most money while still complying with all of the constraints. So when you plug in a 5 hour min calendar day or min duty period, it will do everything in its power to make all of the pairings have no duty periods or days with less than that amount, commutability be damned.

In reality, the average day is what really matters. A 26 hour 4-day pays the same 26 hours whether it's spread out over the 4 days or crammed mostly into the middle 2 days. If I can have a trip that puts 8 hours into each of the middle 2 days, that leaves only 4 hours on the beginning and ending day, making it far more likely that they'll be commutable. But if the pairing generator is running a solution, and it has a trip with 26 hours, but the beginning and ending days have only 4.5 hours on them, and you've got a 5 hour min day, guess what the generator is going to do? It's going to tack on another short out-and-back to make sure that the company doesn't pay you 0.5 hours each of those days for flying that you didn't do.

Scheduling constraints are a double edged sword. You want to make sure that you design them so that the company doesn't make your schedules inefficient, but you don't want to make them so constraining that the pairing generator screws you over. Obviously, for the greedy f-cks who don't care about spending time at home, none of this matters. But for the people who do, how you design scheduling rules is of the utmost importance.

 

[PCL_128]

Yes, I am extremely fortunate in that regard. And in the interest of full disclosure, I misspoke when I said I commute home on the day my trip ends. Technically, the first of my two red eye options actually departs at 12:10am so it actually departs the day after my trip ends. But either way I am responsible for no hotels on my own dime.

Having to take a red eye is not a commutable trip. If you're not getting home the same day your trip ended, then you're losing a day off. Suddenly an 18 day off line is really a 14 day off line.

 

[HowardBorden]

It's not about lowering the rig, it's about eliminating the min day and going to purely an average day. The average day and the rigs will ensure the efficiency, but a min calendar day or duty period minimum over 4 hours will make it impossible for the pairing generator to spit out commutable pairings on a consistent basis. Your point-to-point network actually makes it easier for the pairing generator to create efficient trips that are commutable, but you're artificially constraining it with the min day. The job of the pairing generator is to spit out a solution that saves the company the most money while still complying with all of the constraints. So when you plug in a 5 hour min calendar day or min duty period, it will do everything in its power to make all of the pairings have no duty periods or days with less than that amount, commutability be damned.

In reality, the average day is what really matters. A 26 hour 4-day pays the same 26 hours whether it's spread out over the 4 days or crammed mostly into the middle 2 days. If I can have a trip that puts 8 hours into each of the middle 2 days, that leaves only 4 hours on the beginning and ending day, making it far more likely that they'll be commutable. But if the pairing generator is running a solution, and it has a trip with 26 hours, but the beginning and ending days have only 4.5 hours on them, and you've got a 5 hour min day, guess what the generator is going to do? It's going to tack on another short out-and-back to make sure that the company doesn't pay you 0.5 hours each of those days for flying that you didn't do.

Scheduling constraints are a double edged sword. You want to make sure that you design them so that the company doesn't make your schedules inefficient, but you don't want to make them so constraining that the pairing generator screws you over. Obviously, for the greedy f-cks who don't care about spending time at home, none of this matters. But for the people who do, how you design scheduling rules is of the utmost importance.

The minimum day is especially important to me and I wouldn't give it up for anything.

As I was commuting two weeks ago I had to ride the jumpseat and had a chance to discuss legacy airline hub and spoke scheduling practices. After dropping me off the crew was flying one more leg to their 30 hour layover in a small Midwest city. The pay for that day of fun was per diem only.

The minimum day rig would have required the crew to be paid whether they flew or not, creating a huge disincentive for that scheduling practice. I realize that the intricacies of a hub and spoke model sometimes require either a thirty hour sit or a CDO to handle the last flight in of the night and the first flight out in the morning. For these reasons I don't prefer that type of flying. I prefer to fly each and every day of my trip allowing me to spend that 30 hours at home instead of Timbuktu.

The reason SWA averages more days off across the board for line holders and reserve line holders is the rigs we have in place that force productive trip pairings. I want densely packed productive trips because they allow more time off. When I'm at work I don't mind being productive, in fact I relish it because I am allowed more time at home.