SWA/FL Codeshare

[freightdogfred]

I would like to see this letter. It is the first I have heard of this. And if we are killing you with this stuff then please do not engage in this discussion.

Why do we go round and round with this? Mr RedFlyer, in previous posts, asserts the threat of non-integration was very real and apparent and even claim prior knowledge of it. Perhaps he may be able to reveal the source of his clairvoyance.

Non integration. Same as we all tried to tell then on this very forum. Absolutely none of them believed us. Said we were clueless to how this would go down. The rest is history.

I ask you 1 question, and then I'm done.- Do you think that 84% of the FL pilot group would have voted for this lopsided ISL if it were not for the threat of loss of employment?

 

[SWA/FO]

I ask you 1 question, and then I'm done.- Do you think that 84% of the FL pilot group would have voted for this lopsided ISL if it were not for the threat of loss of employment?

yes!!

 

[SWA Bubba]

We didn't believe you because we believed Gary Kelly when he signed the Process Agreement that WE also signed in good faith that said we COULD go to arbitration and WOULD be integrated.

In an interesting, roundabout way, that your management's duplicity may eventually help bring the two pilot groups together IF Southwest pilots can ever quit blaming individual AirTran pilots or the pilots as a group and realize that your management team lead us down the path we took. If they had been honest from the beginning and said "If we can't come to an Agreement, we won't let the two airlines be combined", I'm sure this would have come out completely differently. They chose to hide their agenda, and here we are.

You can't change that one, simple fact, and the minute you guys can understand that and quit bashing the AirTran pilot group or its leadership, we might get past this. Truth is, you guys were right about your management team not being interested in playing fair with us, regardless of what they were saying to our faces. They were practicing The Art of War, and did it masterfully.

If you stopped being hostile to us about it and actually showed a little empathy for what we're all going through over here, we'd probably be able to acknowledge the "You were right, we were wrong" part of it as well, and we'd likely start playing nicer with each other.

It really is up to SWA pilots at this point to extend the olive branch. Right now we feel beat up by both management and your union, which translates to the average AirTran line pilot as "SWAPA = SWA pilots" since its pilots who run SWAPA. We're not going to somehow magically start feeling happy and nice after we got denied our rights and corralled into doing what we didn't want to do. You guys are going to have to build some bridges with our group, or we're going to have two very separate pilot groups for a very long time. It'll be a quiet separation, people will be professional and cordial in person, but you won't get the AirTran pilots on board with anything you want to do as a union until the relationship is built.

It's just human nature. We'll see if your union recognizes it EVENTUALLY. They certainly don't now. Hoping they will sooner than later.

Some very good points, and I agree with most whole-heartedly Lear, but I think you left left out an element. That would be the vocal AirTran pilots on this board (and of course, General Lee), who continually beat the drum and repeat the fallacy that it "was SWAPA and its pilots who did all this to screw you." You note above that it was the company that played hardball, and even acknowledge that some Southwest guys tried to warn you, but you've still got guys on here who insist the opposite. It can be hard to extend an olive branch to a guy pointing his middle finger at you and calling you names. You know what I mean? It's also very easy to do on an anonymous forum, and as we see, results in a continual game of tit-for-tat (and yes, I know that there's Southwest pot-stirrers on the forum as well). And all the while, you've got dumbasses like the General on the sideline playing his favorite game called "let's you and he fight."

The good news is that in real life, face to face, I think people are doing exactly what you describe: putting their hand out, working together, and living the golden rule. At least, that's what I've seen on the line. Will their be hiccups? Probably, but I'd say it's working out better than one would guess just by reading this board.

I guess the moral is to stop paying so much attention to what is said in FI.

Bubba

 

[SWAdude]

It's not that you haven't heard of it and want to see it that's a problem, although we've all been talking about it on here for over a year. It's your attitude.

Instead of calmly saying you haven't seen it and would like to read it like one of your coworkers did, you inflammatorily accused us of making it up.

You're basically an instigator in the conflict when you and others approach it aggressively, adversaries, and accusatorily. Pretty basic human nature not to respond well to that, then you act surprised that it p*sses us off???

Someone said there is no letter. You say otherwise.

Your equally as blind then. Forget it. Sorry to have bothered you.

I'm out.

 

[SWAdude]

Some very good points, and I agree with most whole-heartedly Lear, but I think you left left out an element. That would be the vocal AirTran pilots on this board (and of course, General Lee), who continually beat the drum and repeat the fallacy that it "was SWAPA and its pilots who did all this to screw you." You note above that it was the company that played hardball, and even acknowledge that some Southwest guys tried to warn you, but you've still got guys on here who insist the opposite. It can be hard to extend an olive branch to a guy pointing his middle finger at you and calling you names. You know what I mean? It's also very easy to do on an anonymous forum, and as we see, results in a continual game of tit-for-tat (and yes, I know that there's Southwest pot-stirrers on the forum as well). And all the while, you've got dumbasses like the General on the sideline playing his favorite game called "let's you and he fight."

The good news is that in real life, face to face, I think people are doing exactly what you describe: putting their hand out, working together, and living the golden rule. At least, that's what I've seen on the line. Will their be hiccups? Probably, but I'd say it's working out better than one would guess just by reading this board.

I guess the moral is to stop paying so much attention to what is said in FI.

Bubba

+1

Very well said. But probably a waste of time.

And to add that the company plays hardball with SWA pilots also.

 

[Sy-bill]

It's not that you haven't heard of it and want to see it that's a problem, although we've all been talking about it on here for over a year. It's your attitude.

Instead of calmly saying you haven't seen it and would like to read it like one of your coworkers did, you inflammatorily accused us of making it up.

You're basically an instigator in the conflict when you and others approach it aggressively, adversaries, and accusatorily. Pretty basic human nature not to respond well to that, then you act surprised that it p*sses us off???

WTF?!?

Please give everyone here a heads up that you need to be approached with kitt gloves next time. From the outside looking in there wasn't anything accusatory or inflamatory about these questions. I am curious also. SWAdude even said he was interested in your response giving you equal opportunity. More than most on this board.

 

[Lear70]

swadude, there isn't, they are bluffing.

Sorry I'm on my phone doesn't display the full thread well. This is the response I meant when I said instigating. My mistake attributing it to SWADude instead. Mea Culpa. :beer:

Will look for the letters later on. If there was never a threat the union wouldn't have started imploding and we would have certainly gone to arbitation. It's the only reason we sent SIA 2 to the pilot group. Otherwise it would never have seen the light of day outside the GO.

And no, I don't require KID gloves (it's usually a yearling cow, softer than lamb). Just saying if people want us to move on they have to stop posting things in an inflammatory way and play nice. Some of the SWA folks are and we appreciate it. But some are still instigating.

 

[SWAdude]

Sorry I'm on my phone doesn't display the full thread well. This is the response I meant when I said instigating. My mistake attributing it to SWADude instead. Mea Culpa. :beer:

Its happened to me for sure. Peace. And cheers!!

Will look for the letters later on. If there was never a threat the union wouldn't have started imploding and we would have certainly gone to arbitation. It's the only reason we sent SIA 2 to the pilot group. Otherwise it would never have seen the light of day outside the GO.

I can understand why. I hope you know we didn't want this integration either. None of us I can honestly say. A few might have been ambivalent at best. Please see from our point of view that your company (AT) sold you without limitations. From my seat those are the ones to cast blame.

And no, I don't require KID gloves (it's usually a yearling cow, softer than lamb). Just saying if people want us to move on they have to stop posting things in an inflammatory way and play nice.

Then for the love of god tell Lee to mind his own business. It gets confusing when he has littered all over the discussion. And it transcends to be your opinions AND feelings.

Some of the SWA folks are and we appreciate it. But some are still instigating.

There are always sh!t stirrers. But at least they are SWA or AT pilots and not Delta pilots. Right?

 

[General Lee]

Its happened to me for sure. Peace. And cheers!!



I can understand why. I hope you know we didn't want this integration either. None of us I can honestly say. A few might have been ambivalent at best. Please see from our point of view that your company (AT) sold you without limitations. From my seat those are the ones to cast blame.



Then for the love of god tell Lee to mind his own business. It gets confusing when he has littered all over the discussion. And it transcends to be your opinions AND feelings.




There are always sh!t stirrers. But at least they are SWA or AT pilots and not Delta pilots. Right?

Mind my own business? Go get YOUR OWN FORUM AND HAVE EVERYONE AT SWA AND AT GET ON IT. I don't give a rat's butt what you think. You know you and your group are a lot like the Easties, just trying to dominate a group and hoping nobody sees you doing it. WRONG. I will continue to comment on injustices.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ATLplt]

yes!!

Not a chance in hell, d!ckhead.

 

[SWA/FO]

Not a chance in hell, d!ckhead.

OK A$$HOLE. See you on line, Gear up bitch!

 

[General Lee]

OK A$$HOLE. See you on line, Gear up bitch!

CLASSIC..........wow...



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[SWA/FO]

CLASSIC..........wow...

Guess you didn't see where he called me d!ckhead? Payback General thats all.

 

[Lear70]

I see we still have a long way to go in bridge building, on both sides of the river.

And FWIW, you're sadly out of touch with what this has done to our pilots if you think SIA 2 passes vote if we still had arbitration AND guaranteed integration per the Process Agreement available. Unfortunately, that ship has sailed.

 

[General Lee]

Guess you didn't see where he called me d!ckhead? Payback General thats all.

Yeah, I saw that. Both not very civil, but the "Gear up Bi#%*" part was a little over the top, you probably could have left it out. That is called fanning the flames, not defending yourself. You will never have unity if that attitude continues.



Bye Bye---General Lee