SWA delaying new planes, adding used Westjet birds --article

[scoreboardII]

Does a guy who takes a set of military active duty orders for a 1-3 years still accrue longevity?

Phred

Yes, per law, and profit sharing as well.

 

[PCL_128]

You mean to tell me that SWA has never allowed anyone to take a leave of absence? I find that difficult to believe.

But it's irrelevant, because there are other adjustments to longevity, which you can find in your CBA. Been a while since I've looked at it, but I remember that they're there.

 

[scoreboardII]

Hardly. Your either a pilot, or your not. You cannot be hired, then decide to take a two year cruise. Many have tried, no one has been approved.

 

[OK3]

That isn't true. We have had more than a few take a leave of absence.

 

[texman]

Yes some have taking a leave of absence, but you do not get longevity pay or vacation.

 

[PCL_128]

I figured as much.

 

[canyonblue]

That isn't true. We have had more than a few take a leave of absence.

If you mean a Military leave of absence, that's completely different. If you mean a personal leave of absence, that is only afforded on a case by case basis. And it is very difficult for the majority of line pilots. You better have an unblemished work record.

 

[Tripower455]

You mean to tell me that SWA has never allowed anyone to take a leave of absence? I find that difficult to believe.

There have been a few random cases.

But it's irrelevant, because there are other adjustments to longevity, which you can find in your CBA. Been a while since I've looked at it, but I remember that they're there.

With very few exceptions, senior pilots have been on the property the longest, and thus have the most longevity. At any airline. To argue otherwise is simply foolish.

 

[waveflyer]

No, by "arrogant" I mean "thinks he's better than everyone else."



It might have something to do with the fact that longevity and seniority have nothing to do with each other. You seem to have contracted a bad case of USAPA disease.

I do not think I'm better than anyone. But it sure is about ego on the air tran side. absolutely. you guys just cant come in humble like wee all did- you want it all. And you want it now. You believe that you're entitled to all the quick upgrades air tran provided, without realizing that a LOT of those upgrades came through attrition- attrition that occurred bc of the mediocre contract and work environment.
What I've said is that my job was better, I made a lot more money, my carrier was stronger, and we bought you. Those aren't my opinions- they're facts.
The same argument that gives widebody slots preference in an SLI, applies to our business model and culture- SWA is flat out a better place to work than AT. pilots make career moves based on money, schedules, and work environment. All people in all fields do. You want to punish all your former air tran pilots for having ambition and making the move to the better job. You want to Leapfrog all of us that took an honest look at air tran and opted not to go there bc it wasnt a good enough job. It's a socialist mentality I am not down with at all.
One doesn't have to have usapa disease to see the disconnect in your seniority air tran is 100% equal to SWA argument.
Do you want me to list the differences between us air east and SWA? Because I'd love to do that for you
Don't do it bc you'll know you'll get owned in that argument on at least a half dozen fronts.
AT pilots got an unbelievably great deal
None of you got screwed MORE than junior SWA pilots, so please, if we can get over it and do real work on keeping this a good place to work- you certainly need to.

 

[vixin]

You better have an unblemished work record.

Or at least have a sick bank that out numbers your OJI. If you have 1600TFP a good chit and can shoot your watch like the best of them. You can get any leave you want.

 

[UALX727]

Ego??? And "we want it all and we want it now." huh...

I didn't ask for this deal....and it's obvious you guys didn't want it,either.
Since this thing went down I have had my base closed...lost my cpt seat
on the 737...had to go thru ground school and get another type rating on
an airplane that is going away. I may be lucky to hold my 717 cpt. seat for 6
months...been a cpt over 6 yrs now....looking at sitting right seat on your side for another 8 years when i get there.....look...I could go on and on...many more stories on our side...but i know you guys have people who feel negative effects as well.

I don't think it's ego at all...or wanting it all. Going into this deal the Airtran pilots felt we had access to an arbitrated solution...with the various statements..letters from SWA management...Bond Mckaskill..etc. After the threat of "plan B" from GK...we felt liked he lied to us from the start. I know many of us on this side don't trust anything the guy says. We just wanted this decided by a neutral...but never got access due to "the threat of non integration"....if we had a neutral party decide this rather than been given "terms of surrender" from GK....and lets say the neutral gave us EXACTLY what we have now...a lot of us on the Airtran side would feel a lot better about it.

I dont post a lot...but after reading the above...i felt like id say my piece....have no issue with any SWA pilot...it is what it is. Just tactics of GK in all of this i wont forget.

 

[PCL_128]

AT pilots got an unbelievably great deal
None of you got screwed MORE than junior SWA pilots

Seriously, I recommend seeing a shrink. There has to be some sort of pharmaceutical that can help you with those intense delusions.

 

[humveedriver]

I do not think I'm better than anyone. But it sure is about ego on the air tran side. absolutely. you guys just cant come in humble like wee all did- you want it all. And you want it now. You believe that you're entitled to all the quick upgrades air tran provided, without realizing that a LOT of those upgrades came through attrition- attrition that occurred bc of the mediocre contract and work environment.
What I've said is that my job was better, I made a lot more money, my carrier was stronger, and we bought you. Those aren't my opinions- they're facts.
The same argument that gives widebody slots preference in an SLI, applies to our business model and culture- SWA is flat out a better place to work than AT. pilots make career moves based on money, schedules, and work environment. All people in all fields do. You want to punish all your former air tran pilots for having ambition and making the move to the better job. You want to Leapfrog all of us that took an honest look at air tran and opted not to go there bc it wasnt a good enough job. It's a socialist mentality I am not down with at all.
One doesn't have to have usapa disease to see the disconnect in your seniority air tran is 100% equal to SWA argument.
Do you want me to list the differences between us air east and SWA? Because I'd love to do that for you
Don't do it bc you'll know you'll get owned in that argument on at least a half dozen fronts.
AT pilots got an unbelievably great deal
None of you got screwed MORE than junior SWA pilots, so please, if we can get over it and do real work on keeping this a good place to work- you certainly need to.

Maybe you don't see it. But your lucky to be here attitude is not really constructive. The good news is; with your pro-management and pro-southwest attitude, you will likely be a check airman or possibly a chief pilot someday. All the best to you, with your career.

 

[madjack]

Are you saying a career at AAI was equal to a career at SWA? It is possible that, given the lack of 117s, u were better off avoiding arbie...hey but ALPA geniuses like PCL only cost u a couple hundred K...

 

[UALX727]

All I'm saying was let an arbitrator figure that out, rather than GK. Who knows where it would have ended up, maybe better, maybe worse for us. But GK's actions in regards to this whole thing have been perceived as less than honest to the typical AirTran line pilot. Also, the decision to sell the 717's was made by SWA management. A stand-alone AirTran was making money with them. Not sure how that would be looked at by an arbitrator or if it even would have been considered.

 

[vixin]

A stand-alone AirTran was making money with them.

At your old rates with cheaper oil. And a weaker Deltoid. How would it be with the higher rates higher oil and a pretty darn strong Delta? Your ex ceo stated that with oil above $80 pbl AAI was going to have difficulties.

 

[UALX727]

Can't argue with that, vixen, all valid points I'm sure an arbitrator would have considered.

 

[maxblast72]

At your old rates with cheaper oil. And a weaker Deltoid. How would it be with the higher rates higher oil and a pretty darn strong Delta? Your ex ceo stated that with oil above $80 pbl AAI was going to have difficulties.

Vixen, how can you question the profitability of AirTran's B717 fleet? As soon as AirTran put the final nail in Midwest's coffin and the Midwest B717 fleet went to the desert, AirTran grabbed those additional 25 B717s as fast as they could.

 

[JT12345]

Before the merger....

Expanding in SWA markets.

BWI doubling our ramp staff, and growing
BOS holding our own with SWA and Jblu
MKE growing growing growing
MCO pilot base

We were expanding and SWA was at a stand still with zero growth. Our only problem was Delta after bankruptcy in ATL.

If we were going to be sooooo bad off in the future why didn't SWA just wait.

You didn't buy us to do us any favors. SWA was tired of us in their way in many of their markets. Especially concerning were markets SWA thought it could really grow like MKE and BOS only to have that not happen. The MCO AAI pilot base must have been the final piece of news.

 

[canyonblue]

We were expanding and SWA was at a stand still with zero growth.

Ever wonder why? I guess sometimes hindsight isn't always 20/20.

 

[Skyboy722]

Vixen, how can you question the profitability of AirTran's B717 fleet? As soon as AirTran put the final nail in Midwest's coffin and the Midwest B717 fleet went to the desert, AirTran grabbed those additional 25 B717s as fast as they could.

Yeah---for parts!!!! I kid, I kid....

 

[Just thinking]

"Ever wonder why? I guess sometimes hindsight isn't always 20/20.".....

Because SW had reached the reality that they could not do much more with what they had. They did not posses the ability or corporate know how to expand their operations with the self imposed limits they had grown. Saying that everything "stopped" at SW because they were saving money to buy AT is a weak excuse. You were faced with competition that had a better product (Year after year at the top of the list for baggage handling and fewest customer complaints and on time performance) with a growing market and an ability to expand (near) internationally with plans to go into South America. (Puerto Rico is not international - in spite of what your magazines say.)

Your hindsight is a bit obscured looking through your purple colored (canyon blue) sunglasses.

 

[vixin]

At least UALX727 keeps the emotions out of it and realizes AAI would have had issues. Some of you other tranny's need to educate yourselves. I dont think SWA wanted to wait. Ever wonder why we werent growing right at the time SWA was looking at buying a certain someone. Yeah because a smart airline would grow grow grow while purchasing another airline. Are some of you tranny's really that ignorant? You might want to do some research on how your ex CEO saw things. Thats right, some of you like your cake and eat it to. Obviously the 717's were so profitable at our rates and higher oil. The most profitable airline in the world decided to get rid of 2/3rds of your fleet. I am sure the management at SWA decided they were just to profitable to stay at SWA.

 

[Just thinking]

Not emotional. Everything that was stated above is factual information. I do not think for a moment that AT would not have faced severe competition and I truly belive that collectively both pilot groups are in a better position. SW did not possess the abilities to do what they are now posed to accomplish. Our ex ceo finished what JL started and tried to do several times.... get SW to buy AT. It was no secret. But if AT was in such dire financial ruin, why not wait for the fire sale? It is not like SW capitalized on the Atlanta market or jumped right in to the international ops. How many years has it been? Just got the overwater OK! WOO HOOOOOO.

 

[RLAblows]

At your old rates with cheaper oil. And a weaker Deltoid. How would it be with the higher rates higher oil and a pretty darn strong Delta? Your ex ceo stated that with oil above $80 pbl AAI was going to have difficulties.

So why not wait for AirTran to fail so you can buy them for pennies on the dollar?

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

So why not wait for AirTran to fail so you can buy them for pennies on the dollar?

Exactly.

For all you airline CEO wannabes that gave AT no future hope, why buy us when you could have just picked up the pieces in the impending fire sale after bankruptcy? Or, better yet, figure out your way to fly outside CONUS and not have to deal with us in the first place? It's actually kind of scary for those of us that are acquired to come to the realization that our new company had to buy us to leave the lower 48 after 40 years in business. We're not impressed.

 

[madjack]

Why were pilots leaving AAI for SWA?

 

[scoreboardII]

Exactly.

For all you airline CEO wannabes that gave AT no future hope, why buy us when you could have just picked up the pieces in the impending fire sale after bankruptcy? Or, better yet, figure out your way to fly outside CONUS and not have to deal with us in the first place? It's actually kind of scary for those of us that are acquired to come to the realization that our new company had to buy us to leave the lower 48 after 40 years in business. We're not impressed.

Because, you often do not have the luxury of knowing when that end game is near. Take F9, we now know it was as a pure exercise to get inside the books and raise the cost by bidding it up. AT was a given because the AT CEO shopped SWA. Better to do it early than later when other competitors try to outbid you.

 

[vixin]

For all you airline CEO wannabes that gave AT no future hope,

Never claimed but I can read what your EX CEO was saying about AAI future and it wasnt that great. Not anywhere close to as great as some of you tranny's brained washed yourselves into thinking.

 

[dicko]

Never claimed but I can read what your EX CEO was saying about AAI future and it wasnt that great. Not anywhere close to as great as some of you tranny's brained washed yourselves into thinking.

He would say he had webbed feet and made meat helmets as a hobby if he thought it would get him paid.