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jball2 said:
Dude, AAI has the more rapid gain of relative seniority, not us. That is the biggest problem, unless I read your post wrong.
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That is a problem that needs to be addressed, agreed. But, there are ways to address it, and I'm sure our MC will be making proposals that will address it. But again, those methods don't require a chunk of our pilots to be attached to the bottom of the list. There are other ways to skin a cat. Now, if SWAPA and the SWA pilots are truly only concerned about addressing those legitimate issues and protecting their career expectations, and aren't really concerned about some sort of ridiculous ego problem of having AirTran pilots mixed into their list without a group of us being stapled, then I'm sure a deal can be reached.
 
Dash Power said:
If you are a guarantee for increased profits and growth, why are your profits consistently anemic and recent growth marginal.
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Why don't you ask Gary? Apparently, he hasn't shared the answers with you. Maybe you should stick to flying planes and leave the Financial stuff to them.

Didn't you have guys on furlough last year or so?
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No, did you? If you are so uninformed as to ask this, perhaps you ought to take some time to do some research, instead of just posting random crap.

This deal could actually harm SWA. (a huge, rationalized concern for the pilots of SWA) There is no guarantees in the airline business. You are ignorant to think otherwise.
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You're right. That is why pay rates are transient, seniority is a constant.

I hope both sides come to negotiated agreements with all their seniority based work groups. The alternative could be quite damaging to one our both of the interested parties.
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Only if you decide to behave like spoiled children. Follow the agreement you have signed. . . . . You agreed to Binding Arbitration; if it comes to it, then abide by it. Be a man. It really isn't that hard. Is it?
 
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PCL_128 said:
Now, if SWAPA and the SWA pilots are truly only concerned about addressing those legitimate issues and protecting their career expectations, and aren't really concerned about some sort of ridiculous ego problem of having AirTran pilots mixed into their list without a group of us being stapled, then I'm sure a deal can be reached.
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There you go again- always the passive aggressive alpa poisoning/raising discontent by calling out WN ego w/ no regard to AT's. Let's just shelve the ego thing and recognize most every pilot worth anything at all IS proud.

But this is now just you looking out for #1. I imagine YOU will end up below CJ, so you're about painting it as a staple no matter how many of your senior are ratio'd in.

Sorry, but there are a lot of arguments that end up with a good lot of FOs at the bottom of the snapshot- the biggest of which is that the SWA job takes 3-5 years longer than AT to get competitive. Are you saying you'll be pissed if those arguments are made and agreed to, PCL?
But here's what I don't like- I got a few hundred friends who'd love to be at the bottom of everyone, who have slim chances competing against 7000 other very well qualified applicants. It is that FACT that's annoying when AT guys get aggressive and are less than happy to be here. Especially since GK has reaffirmed again, no furloughs.
 
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So sorry. Time flies when the stapler is swinging.

2 Years, 10 months, 3 days ago were the first furloughs. Like it makes a difference...
 
That would be incredibly unlikely.
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Be prepared to be disappointed. Maybe Ty will help dry your tears.

Long enough ago to have several hundred pilots under me on the AirTran list.
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A 4 year Tranny!!!! What an EGO. He just finished 4 years there. Whoa, watch out Southwest he wont agree to anything that puts him down the list. You are so far down the list its not even funny. You don't even belong on OUR list.

Don't make me laugh big guy. :cartman:
 
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PCL_128 said:
Long enough ago to have several hundred pilots under me on the AirTran list.
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Why always so shady? That wasn't an answer. Define 'several'. And is that before or after the snapshot?
Its easy. Mid '07 for me. Im not going to bother looking it up but well over 500 below me at the snapshot. There, now Your turn.
 
Fellow AT pilots.. have you noticed the uprising lately from the swa side here? its like a school yard bully.. don't get drawn into their attacks and name calling. Its almost like they are hoping you fight back so they can point and say see how angry and contentious you are. If the 2 MC's can come to agreement acceptable to both sides, great! If not, there is already an established process and timeline agreed to by all parties. Don't let them bate you or lower your expectations with veiled threats. The goals are the same today as they were 9 months ago. Let the process work.
 
More popcorn! In general, I like SWA guys, but it may be time to think about the definition of hubris.
 
bladeusa said:
Fellow AT pilots.. have you noticed the uprising lately from the swa side here? its like a school yard bully.. don't get drawn into their attacks and name calling. Its almost like they are hoping you fight back so they can point and say see how angry and contentious you are. If the 2 MC's can come to agreement acceptable to both sides, great! If not, there is already an established process and timeline agreed to by all parties. Don't let them bate you or lower your expectations with veiled threats. The goals are the same today as they were 9 months ago. Let the process work.
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So true, these guys are an embarrassment to their fine company.
 
bladeusa said:
Fellow AT pilots.. have you noticed the uprising lately from the swa side here? its like a school yard bully.. don't get drawn into their attacks and name calling. Its almost like they are hoping you fight back so they can point and say see how angry and contentious you are. If the 2 MC's can come to agreement acceptable to both sides, great! If not, there is already an established process and timeline agreed to by all parties. Don't let them bate you or lower your expectations with veiled threats. The goals are the same today as they were 9 months ago. Let the process work.
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Good post.

AirTran guys...time to pull back and stop feeding all the trolls. Let 'em say what they want. Take the high road and simply be silent.

They'll fight it out with the DAL guys anyway. Actually, they're good at bullying anyone that's not them.
 
Yeah, everybody feels so sorry for the trannies. Sucks to get the huge raises and benefits that they could possibly get. Poor guys getting sooo screwed. Especially Lear70 who was BEGGING to be stapled a couple weeks before AirTran got bought out!!

Whaaa waaa!
 
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ATLplt said:
AirTran guys...time to pull back and stop feeding all the trolls. Let 'em say what they want. Take the high road and simply be silent.
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Agreed. I'm done!
 
PCL has got to go. 4 year rookie. The nerve.
 
From the outside looking in, I find the AirTran guys to be more of the trolls. AirTran pilots first say relative, then SWA guys say no way and respond with a staple because they feel insulted. This clearly was started by the AirTran pilots.

SWA guys are now pretty much just saying that they want to hold onto what their future appeared to be. And the AirTran guys seem to can't handle what is clearly fair considering what financial and quality of life gains they will be experiencing. Very brave to set up your future companies co-workers and union with that kind of attitude. Some of the AirTran pilots don't want to understand what "career value" really is about. Because that is ultimately what Alpa will agree to. And my guess both sides will vote it in and a negotiated ISL will be achieved giving AirTran pilots a seat at the Integration Agreement meetings which is huge when it comes to their future. And the MEC knows that.

As I said from the very beginning with much backlash, an arbitrated agreement will be better for the SWA pilots than the AirTran pilots. AirTran pilots MUST have a seat at that table. If they don't, it will likely be the result of a process that has 5700 angry SWA pilots and their management will deal with that appropriately.

I have always noticed that the happiest, most successful people always know where they are in the food chain. Acting entitled does not recognize this simple fact.

Good luck to you all.
 
PCL_128 said:
I understand exactly what you're saying, and there are several ways to address that in ISL models that won't harm either group. And it doesn't require doing what wave continually demands, in placing hundreds of AirTran pilots below Mr. Johnson. There are solutions to this, as long as people think rationally instead of emotionally.
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PCL, its clear that you and your MC did have differing views which probably lead to your recall.

You're right...there are solutioins that won't harm any SWA pilots. (I didn't say SWA and AAI pilots because no SLI scenario will harm your pilots.) In order to formulate such solutions requires a lot of data. Apparently, our NC is the only one with the data. A tranny I know told me that one of your MC members was in your ATL lounge the other day showing SLI scenarios and financial data presented by the SWAPA NC. If your committee is using our NC's data to prove our NC's positions, we should be well on our way to a negotiated deal to vote on.
 
I had a busy day today. Had to get the bike tie-downs mounted on the new truck and install a trailer brake. Loading up the camper right now to start enjoying well over a month of vacation. Nothing like spending 6 weeks of campfires and kayaks with your kids.

Ya'll knock this ******************** off and have something for me to vote on when I get back.

Gup
 
GuppyWN said:
I had a busy day today. Had to get the bike tie-downs mounted on the new truck and install a trailer brake. Loading up the camper right now to start enjoying well over a month of vacation. Nothing like spending 6 weeks of campfires and kayaks with your kids.

Ya'll knock this ******************** off and have something for me to vote on when I get back.

Gup
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I award you best post of the whole string!
Have fun!
 

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