SWA Contract - How good is it?

[momalley81]

That's not the point. The point is that you shouldn't be required to contribute some of your salary to your retirement. Anything you contribute should be icing on the cake. There should be a base retirement contribution from your employer without a dime coming from you.

No, that is the point.

I am not required to contribute anything from my salary to my retirement yet I choose to so that I can live the life I want to when I choose to retire.

If you want to compare contracts and what employers should be doing for their employees then lets compare SWA to AirTran and vice versa.

 

[JoeMerchant]

That's not the point. The point is that you shouldn't be required to contribute some of your salary to your retirement. Anything you contribute should be icing on the cake. There should be a base retirement contribution from your employer without a dime coming from you.

That is the thinking that has gotten us into this problem....We should all be contributing more to our retirement and health care.....The retirement and health care fairy doesn't exist....It is our responsibity to save for these things.....

I'm not sure where you folks think the money comes from to support someone from 60 to 90.....It doesn't fall out of the sky.....

You can either work longer or save more earlier.....Your choice.....

 

[satpak77]

I will add that if anybody is "relying on someone else" for their retirement, shame on them. We all should contribute a little something to somewhere, savings, 401(k) contributions, real estate, somewhere.

 

[maxblast72]

However as a third year F/O, I would rather have 7.3% of $130,000 versus 10.5% of $65,000

However as a fourth year Captain, I would rather have 10.5% of $140,000 a year than your 7.3% of $130,000. Now, when you upgrade in 10-12 years, you'll kick my ass but it is a long time between now and then.

 

[momalley81]

However as a fourth year Captain, I would rather have 10.5% of $140,000 a year than your 7.3% of $130,000. Now, when you upgrade in 10-12 years, you'll kick my ass but it is a long time between now and then.

$140,000 for an airline Captain really isn't anything to brag about.

We have F/O's pulling in over $200,000 a year.

However, for me that is working too hard and I like having 17-18 days off a month so that I can focus my energies in my other place of employment.

We even have some Captain's bringing home over $400,000. I wouldn't want their lifestyle yet I am sure their checks are somewhat impressive.

 

[400ADude]

140K is not good for a Capt.

 

[Skybus]

No argument there. But there's no reason why your wildly profitable company can't provide you a good B-fund so you don't have to contribute your own money to retirement if you choose not to.


Might that be the "Wildly profitable" company that u desire to work for and have more than likely been turned down by??

Can we put this off for another 20 years and then determine what was the better plan? It was not too long ago that the demands were for that wonderful defined benefit plan. Haven't heard that one on a while. Only time will tell....

 

[maxblast72]

$140,000 for an airline Captain really isn't anything to brag about.

We have F/O's pulling in over $200,000 a year.

However, for me that is working too hard and I like having 17-18 days off a month so that I can focus my energies in my other place of employment.

We even have some Captain's bringing home over $400,000. I wouldn't want their lifestyle yet I am sure their checks are somewhat impressive.

I am not bragging about $140,000 a year for Captain pay, but I think a 4th year W-2 of $140,000 isn't bad for today's environment. Every company is different. Some have really good payscales while others have really quick career progression.

I think Southwest has been one of the best run companies over the last 35 years. Good management that likes to share company prosperity with their employees is a refreshing change in this industry. However, how did Southwest's payscales compare to the industry average at Southwest 15 year mark (late 1980's)? We are working for a better contract here, and it helps to have your guys scale as an example of how well paid pilots can still be part of a successful company.

 

[328dude]

If your not investing on your own and relaying on your company to fund your retirement, then we are all stupid.

 

[GuppyWN]

If your not investing on your own and relaying on your company to fund your retirement, then we are all stupid.

Well the way I've been doing lately I feel pretty stupid now! Yikes.

Gup

 

[PCL_128]

Might that be the "Wildly profitable" company that u desire to work for and have more than likely been turned down by??

Nope. Never even applied.

 

[Mach 80]

What is lost on pilots is the most important aspect which is not necessarily 'the contract' but the company's debt/equity ratio.

You can have a fantastic contract but if the company isn't strong enough to support and continue it for it's duration, it's worthless, i.e. UAL, Delta, and other airlines in the recent past. What good is a "great" contract if it isn't upheld?

 

[FatesPawn]

Justin,

Since your initial question didn't focus on retirement I'll try to answer another aspect of your question.

Our schedules average 17 days off/ month (normally on a 3 on 4 off rotation) that "credit" about 93.x/ month. Our pay system doesn't exactly compare with other airlines but that's another topic.

We fly really dense trips. The reason is the nature of the company's flying and the single airplane type on property.

When you fly a "hub and spoke" operation, there WILL be times you have to sit waiting for the next hub push. Hub and spoke is an efficient way to route passengers (if not inconvenient) but in inefficient way to schedule crews. Our flying is point to point with 25 minute turns. Even if we have to swap aircraft in the middle of the day, the high frequency nature of our operation means there will likely always be an aircraft for us to swap to (from a schedule standpoint) within 45 minutes to 1:30. That's usually how long our swap breaks are scheduled for.

Our rigs (minimum pay metrics per day/duty/trip) enhance our pairing generator (the computer that builds the trips) to make even MORE efficient trips than the natural schedule would. The computer looks at these metrics and targets itself to build BETTER pairings where we actually do work rather than get paid a rig (paid for not working). While our RIGS would pay us a minimum of 19.5 for a 3 day trip, generally they are built to 21-22 credits for 3 days and its not unusual to fly 3 days as high as 24 or 25.

Our contract is FAR from perfect, but between the contract language and the simple nature of our flying, you fly a pretty productive line.

-fate

 

[Bigoober]

FatesPawn has a great point there with regards to efficiency for the pilot.

At CAL, the schedule is run for efficiency of the company but the pilot has a ton of sit around time. A wait of 3 hours is not unusual at a hub between flights. I have heard of a layover of 50 hours that one captain was complaining about (I don't blame him). For some, the long layovers a good. For others, they want to get the work done efficiently and get home. Just depends on your type. The longer layovers usually mean less time at home to make the hours for the month.

As for paying for your own retirement or not, you pay whether directly or indirectly. One has you shuffling money by your own hands, another has the company doing it while keeping your pay a little lower.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Nope. Never even applied.

Why not? Their pay is much better than Air Trans....You talk tough about raising the bar yet your actions are different.....Gulfstream...Pinnacle....Air Tran....

 

[StopNTSing]

As he's clearly shown time & again on other threads, PCL doesn't know jack about this company or what it's like to work here....he just knows he wouldn't want to.

 

[Luckie13]

side note on benefits...

The difference in the medical/dental/vision coverage for a family of 4 is about $400 a month ($4800 a year) between AAI and WN. Over the course of a 30 year career I figure that is about 144,000 canollis. Bada Boom, Bada Bing. Isn't that 4th year captain pay at AAI? PCL, I'll bet you wish you could have contributed THAT to your B-Plan. Standing by with flak-jacket and kevlar helmet for backlash.

 

[PCL_128]

Why not? Their pay is much better than Air Trans

The commute wouldn't have been fun. I only applied to carriers that provided an easy commute from my home in Atlanta. With SWA not even serving ATL, I would always have been an offline jumpseater, and to some of the worst commuting airports in the country like ORD and LAS. Not fun. The money would be nice, but not worth the commuting hell for the next 30 years.

 

[PCL_128]

The difference in the medical/dental/vision coverage for a family of 4 is about $400 a month ($4800 a year) between AAI and WN. Over the course of a 30 year career I figure that is about 144,000 canollis. Bada Boom, Bada Bing. Isn't that 4th year captain pay at AAI? PCL, I'll bet you wish you could have contributed THAT to your B-Plan. Standing by with flak-jacket and kevlar helmet for backlash.

Agreed. Our benefits costs are horrible. Big priority for the next contract.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Why not? Their pay is much better than Air Trans....You talk tough about raising the bar yet your actions are different.....Gulfstream...Pinnacle....Air Tran....

Oh this is priceless, the king of PFT speakes. YOU'RE criticizing someone for not applying somewhere. The guy who can't get hired anywhere. Just tell him what you did, go out and sue to get your seniority number.