SWA Contract - How good is it?

[JoeMerchant]

No argument there. But there's no reason why your wildly profitable company can't provide you a good B-fund so you don't have to contribute your own money to retirement if you choose not to.

How's the Air Tran B fund? How were the PNCL and Gulfstream B funds?......

 

[PCL_128]

I thought we don't compete with one another....You sure are worried about what SWA gets.....

We don't. But we do pattern bargain off of one another.

 

[PCL_128]

How's the Air Tran B fund?

Pretty good. Thanks for asking.

 

[satpak77]

just a side note, the 401(k) stuff, 401(k)s were NOT designed to benefit the worker, despite spin by corporate America, they were designed FOR the companies, so that they would no longer have to pay $$ cash in pensions and could instead put the burden on the market itself and the worker to choose investment choices.

If the market is in the dumps, well, so is your 401(k). If the market is up, 401(k)s are "better" than pensions. A 401(k) in 1998 was the hottest thing around. Now? Give me a pension.

observe how very few companies, the US Govt included, offer a "pension" as a retirement plan. There is a reason for that.

 

[momalley81]

If the market is in the dumps, well, so is your 401(k). If the market is up, 401(k)s are "better" than pensions. A 401(k) in 1998 was the hottest thing around. Now? Give me a pension.

Not true. If your investments in your 401k are in Cash and Bonds then you are beating the market. You don't have to be in 100% equities in your 401k.

Furthermore, ask the USAir guys how they like their pension right now. An A-fund is not yours until you sign on the dotted line at retirement.

And a B-fund is simply a 401k that you don't have to contribute to. Many times (as in the case with AA) it is almost 100% tied to equities with the employee having no say how that money is invested.

 

[momalley81]

No argument there. But there's no reason why your wildly profitable company can't provide you a good B-fund so you don't have to contribute your own money to retirement if you choose not to.

If you choose not to contribute to your 401k then you are an idiot.

End of story.

 

[satpak77]

Not true. If your investments in your 401k are in Cash and Bonds then you are beating the market. You don't have to be in 100% equities in your 401k.

Furthermore, ask the USAir guys how they like their pension right now. An A-fund is not yours until you sign on the dotted line at retirement.

And a B-fund is simply a 401k that you don't have to contribute to. Many times (as in the case with AA) it is almost 100% tied to equities with the employee having no say how that money is invested.

An investment in cash and bonds will yield 3-6%. The problem is that 98% of the general public does not know when to go cash and bonds.

You have valid observations on the A-fund, etc.

However (this is an airline thread, yes, but...) in most scenarios a pension is a better benefit than a 401(k) is.

 

[momalley81]

An investment in cash and bonds will yield 3-6%. The problem is that 98% of the general public does not know when to go cash and bonds.

You have valid observations on the A-fund, etc.

However (this is an airline thread, yes, but...) in most scenarios a pension is a better benefit than a 401(k) is.

I wouldn't mind having a B-fund that was self directed however I want NO PART of an A-fund.

No A-fund at all.

However, if it is self directed then I have the same problems with market fluctuation and market timing that everyone else has with a 401k.

That being said my point that a B-fund is not better than a 401k still holds water. They are almost one in the same and the A-fund is too risky to have in the airline sector.

So again I respectfully disagree. I don't think a pension is better than a 401k.

 

[PCL_128]

If you choose not to contribute to your 401k then you are an idiot.

End of story.

That's not the point. The point is that you shouldn't be required to contribute some of your salary to your retirement. Anything you contribute should be icing on the cake. There should be a base retirement contribution from your employer without a dime coming from you.

 

[satpak77]

I wouldn't mind having a B-fund that was self directed however I want NO PART of an A-fund.

No A-fund at all.

However, if it is self directed then I have the same problems with market fluctuation and market timing that everyone else has with a 401k.

That being said my point that a B-fund is not better than a 401k still holds water. They are almost one in the same and the A-fund is too risky to have in the airline sector.

So again I respectfully disagree. I don't think a pension is better than a 401k.

Well let me meet you half-way and say a non-airline pension in almost all cases is indeed better.

I would rather get a pension from Exxon than a 401(k) from Exxon. etc