Nope. Never even applied.
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SWA Contract - How good is it?
- Thread starter justin15e
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Nope. Never even applied.
What is lost on pilots is the most important aspect which is not necessarily 'the contract' but the company's debt/equity ratio.
You can have a fantastic contract but if the company isn't strong enough to support and continue it for it's duration, it's worthless, i.e. UAL, Delta, and other airlines in the recent past. What good is a "great" contract if it isn't upheld?
You can have a fantastic contract but if the company isn't strong enough to support and continue it for it's duration, it's worthless, i.e. UAL, Delta, and other airlines in the recent past. What good is a "great" contract if it isn't upheld?
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FatesPawn
HVAC Commander
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2003
- Posts
- 237
Justin,
Since your initial question didn't focus on retirement I'll try to answer another aspect of your question.
Our schedules average 17 days off/ month (normally on a 3 on 4 off rotation) that "credit" about 93.x/ month. Our pay system doesn't exactly compare with other airlines but that's another topic.
We fly really dense trips. The reason is the nature of the company's flying and the single airplane type on property.
When you fly a "hub and spoke" operation, there WILL be times you have to sit waiting for the next hub push. Hub and spoke is an efficient way to route passengers (if not inconvenient) but in inefficient way to schedule crews. Our flying is point to point with 25 minute turns. Even if we have to swap aircraft in the middle of the day, the high frequency nature of our operation means there will likely always be an aircraft for us to swap to (from a schedule standpoint) within 45 minutes to 1:30. That's usually how long our swap breaks are scheduled for.
Our rigs (minimum pay metrics per day/duty/trip) enhance our pairing generator (the computer that builds the trips) to make even MORE efficient trips than the natural schedule would. The computer looks at these metrics and targets itself to build BETTER pairings where we actually do work rather than get paid a rig (paid for not working). While our RIGS would pay us a minimum of 19.5 for a 3 day trip, generally they are built to 21-22 credits for 3 days and its not unusual to fly 3 days as high as 24 or 25.
Our contract is FAR from perfect, but between the contract language and the simple nature of our flying, you fly a pretty productive line.
-fate
Since your initial question didn't focus on retirement I'll try to answer another aspect of your question.
Our schedules average 17 days off/ month (normally on a 3 on 4 off rotation) that "credit" about 93.x/ month. Our pay system doesn't exactly compare with other airlines but that's another topic.
We fly really dense trips. The reason is the nature of the company's flying and the single airplane type on property.
When you fly a "hub and spoke" operation, there WILL be times you have to sit waiting for the next hub push. Hub and spoke is an efficient way to route passengers (if not inconvenient) but in inefficient way to schedule crews. Our flying is point to point with 25 minute turns. Even if we have to swap aircraft in the middle of the day, the high frequency nature of our operation means there will likely always be an aircraft for us to swap to (from a schedule standpoint) within 45 minutes to 1:30. That's usually how long our swap breaks are scheduled for.
Our rigs (minimum pay metrics per day/duty/trip) enhance our pairing generator (the computer that builds the trips) to make even MORE efficient trips than the natural schedule would. The computer looks at these metrics and targets itself to build BETTER pairings where we actually do work rather than get paid a rig (paid for not working). While our RIGS would pay us a minimum of 19.5 for a 3 day trip, generally they are built to 21-22 credits for 3 days and its not unusual to fly 3 days as high as 24 or 25.
Our contract is FAR from perfect, but between the contract language and the simple nature of our flying, you fly a pretty productive line.
-fate
Bigoober
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 19, 2004
- Posts
- 222
FatesPawn has a great point there with regards to efficiency for the pilot.
At CAL, the schedule is run for efficiency of the company but the pilot has a ton of sit around time. A wait of 3 hours is not unusual at a hub between flights. I have heard of a layover of 50 hours that one captain was complaining about (I don't blame him). For some, the long layovers a good. For others, they want to get the work done efficiently and get home. Just depends on your type. The longer layovers usually mean less time at home to make the hours for the month.
As for paying for your own retirement or not, you pay whether directly or indirectly. One has you shuffling money by your own hands, another has the company doing it while keeping your pay a little lower.
At CAL, the schedule is run for efficiency of the company but the pilot has a ton of sit around time. A wait of 3 hours is not unusual at a hub between flights. I have heard of a layover of 50 hours that one captain was complaining about (I don't blame him). For some, the long layovers a good. For others, they want to get the work done efficiently and get home. Just depends on your type. The longer layovers usually mean less time at home to make the hours for the month.
As for paying for your own retirement or not, you pay whether directly or indirectly. One has you shuffling money by your own hands, another has the company doing it while keeping your pay a little lower.
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Posts
- 6,353
Why not? Their pay is much better than Air Trans....You talk tough about raising the bar yet your actions are different.....Gulfstream...Pinnacle....Air Tran....
StopNTSing
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 16, 2003
- Posts
- 715
side note on benefits...
The difference in the medical/dental/vision coverage for a family of 4 is about $400 a month ($4800 a year) between AAI and WN. Over the course of a 30 year career I figure that is about 144,000 canollis. Bada Boom, Bada Bing. Isn't that 4th year captain pay at AAI? PCL, I'll bet you wish you could have contributed THAT to your B-Plan. Standing by with flak-jacket and kevlar helmet for backlash.
The difference in the medical/dental/vision coverage for a family of 4 is about $400 a month ($4800 a year) between AAI and WN. Over the course of a 30 year career I figure that is about 144,000 canollis. Bada Boom, Bada Bing. Isn't that 4th year captain pay at AAI? PCL, I'll bet you wish you could have contributed THAT to your B-Plan. Standing by with flak-jacket and kevlar helmet for backlash.
The commute wouldn't have been fun. I only applied to carriers that provided an easy commute from my home in Atlanta. With SWA not even serving ATL, I would always have been an offline jumpseater, and to some of the worst commuting airports in the country like ORD and LAS. Not fun. The money would be nice, but not worth the commuting hell for the next 30 years.
Agreed. Our benefits costs are horrible. Big priority for the next contract.
Scope out RJ's
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 31, 2006
- Posts
- 1,926
Oh this is priceless, the king of PFT speakes. YOU'RE criticizing someone for not applying somewhere. The guy who can't get hired anywhere. Just tell him what you did, go out and sue to get your seniority number.
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