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SWA Contract - How good is it?
- Thread starter justin15e
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It's not any different. Maybe a little less restrictions on what scheduling can do but they rarely screw anyone around so it's a pretty good give and take. It does happen though. I have heard some wild scheduling stories but I believe half of them. We do have our 1% who bitch and moan but most of them have never seen what it's like at other airlines. They are probably on PPlum right now complaining that have to swap aircraft a couple times a trip. It's sad that they are around.
Sounds like the new contract is going to be much about SCOPE. Lots of rumors around about code sharing and stagnating our growth. It's making everyone a bit tense.
Sounds like the new contract is going to be much about SCOPE. Lots of rumors around about code sharing and stagnating our growth. It's making everyone a bit tense.
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So, if you say that the new contract will be mostly about scope, are there any plans for a B plan retirement or any pay increases? I know SWA is currently industry leading in regards to pay with pax carriers, but that doesn't mean they aren't still behind FDX or UPS in regards to pay and benefits. Again, I'm just curious since another site I read the contract was ammendable 2 years ago.
FatesPawn
HVAC Commander
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- Feb 1, 2003
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- 237
Justin,
There's ALWAYS talk about what benefits are being negotiated in our contract. I'd be SHOCKED to see anything beyond a cost of living raise with regard to pay.
With regard to retirement, we are looking for improvements, but not necessarily a "B-plan." We already get a 7.3% match on our 401k - so that's very comparable with any B-plan out there.
If you meant A-plan, neither side is interested in a Pension.
Profitsharing historically made up the difference in retirement, but as those margins get thinner, the difference is more difficult.
Look for enhancements to our scheduling section (reserves especially), COLA, and perhaps an extra couple percent in our retirement + profitsharing.
fate
There's ALWAYS talk about what benefits are being negotiated in our contract. I'd be SHOCKED to see anything beyond a cost of living raise with regard to pay.
With regard to retirement, we are looking for improvements, but not necessarily a "B-plan." We already get a 7.3% match on our 401k - so that's very comparable with any B-plan out there.
If you meant A-plan, neither side is interested in a Pension.
Profitsharing historically made up the difference in retirement, but as those margins get thinner, the difference is more difficult.
Look for enhancements to our scheduling section (reserves especially), COLA, and perhaps an extra couple percent in our retirement + profitsharing.
fate
Skybus
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Lots of rumors around about code sharing and stagnating our growth. It's making everyone a bit tense.
???????
Perhaps u have been hanging around PPrune?? I have never heard so little re: a contract in my career here. That being said it is shocking to me the little discussion re: the codeshare and "stagnant" growth. I for one think this is a threat to future growth/upgrades.
???????
Perhaps u have been hanging around PPrune?? I have never heard so little re: a contract in my career here. That being said it is shocking to me the little discussion re: the codeshare and "stagnant" growth. I for one think this is a threat to future growth/upgrades.
The Victors
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Happy or clueless? A vast majority of our pilots have their heads buried in the sand when it comes to the threat of codeshare and scope. Westjet is just the beginning. The union refuses to show us the T/A on the new scope/codeshare... even though they say the company is honoring it with the Westjet deal. We'll have a new contract by the end of the 2Q09 if we're lucky.
contrail67
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So are they hinting at outsourcing your jobs to the codesharing partners...type of thing?
thruthemurk
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FatesPawn
HVAC Commander
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Isn't UAL's B-plan 9%? They have a C plan of 7% and "profitsharing" but we have profit sharing too.
If you want to compare the ENTIRE retirement picture:
401k Match = 7.3%
Profitsharing average = 7-8%
So we average about 15% of our earnings while other groups have better or worse combinations of Bplan/401k/profitsharing/pensions
Is 15% not competitive?
-fate
If you want to compare the ENTIRE retirement picture:
401k Match = 7.3%
Profitsharing average = 7-8%
So we average about 15% of our earnings while other groups have better or worse combinations of Bplan/401k/profitsharing/pensions
Is 15% not competitive?
-fate
No 401k match is ever comparable to a B-plan. B-plans give you money without you having to contribute a dime of your own money. You only receive a 401k match if you contribute. There are also more restrictions on 401k contributions than B-plan contributions. B-plans are far superior to 401ks.
I don't think it's quite that bad (at least not publicly). It's not like when I worked at Skyway and they threatened to shift all the flying to Mesa unless we accepted their lame*** contract.
However, "expanding" internationally with only codeshare partners rather than SWA aircraft (and pilots) is a threat to my seniority advancement and upgrade, so yes, I think this is the biggest issue in the contract. And yes, about half of our pilot group doesn't understand that.
I think the pilot group is generally happy (always with exceptions) with our current setup, but there are definitely things that we want fixed in this next contract. Being pretty happy with what we have doesn't mean we should or will lose sight of the ball during negotiations... and I'll vote "NO" if I need to (I've done it at other airlines!).
What do you guys have at AirTran!
Whataburger
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Can't complain. Iron out all the side letters and throw in some code-share language, and let's vote. The people that complain the loudest don't have much to compare our language and QOL to.
Comparing our "retirement" to others is as F-ed up as a football bat. We' have never tried to be like the others. For now it works and will provide money after the 65th birthday, or 70, or 80, or whatever the old dudes change it to by then. No need to choke the golden goose or even, as United says, "Squeeze every egg out of the golden goose."
Comparing our "retirement" to others is as F-ed up as a football bat. We' have never tried to be like the others. For now it works and will provide money after the 65th birthday, or 70, or 80, or whatever the old dudes change it to by then. No need to choke the golden goose or even, as United says, "Squeeze every egg out of the golden goose."
A 10.5% B-plan.
Hose A. Jiminez
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Difference is we get to keep ours reguardless what happens to the company. I truly hope you still have yours at the end of your career, hard to tell these days.
FatesPawn
HVAC Commander
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PCL,
Why are B-plans "far superior" to a matching 401k? - I mean, Besides the fact you have to contribute your own money to get the match (which is a very good idea in any case)
We have decent investing options (depending on your investing 'prowess' some might argue otherwise) and for those with more time on their hands to do more research we have a 50% Self directed brokerage option.
If your salary exceeds the $230,000 IRC limit you still get the company "match" even though it's beyond your own contribution. The extra money goes into a 401(a)(17) plan that, while non-qualified, has an S&P 500 option that IS essentially qualified (protected from creditors.)
If you exceed the $46,000 IRC limit, we have an "excess benefit" program that either pays you in cash or allows you essentially the same investing options as the 401(a)(17) plan.
These seemed to be the same provisions I remember from my UAL days? So, in all seriousness, why is a B-fund better?
-fate
There's no difference there. B-funds are in your own name and aren't at risk if the airline goes out of business or files bankruptcy. It's your money.
That is all the reason you should need. You shouldn't have to contribute a dime of your own income if you don't want to. That should just be icing on the cake, not your base retirement plan.
momalley81
Done spillt mah beer...
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- Sep 24, 2002
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In my AA 11% B-fund I had NO option where my money went.
At least in my SWA 401K I can control where my money goes.
B-fund's are nice but they are not "FAR SUPERIOR" to 401k's.
That's just a bad B-fund then. Most B-funds include many investment options and some even include self-directed brokerage accounts that allow you to invest in just about anything.
BottomPlug
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momalley81
Done spillt mah beer...
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Exactly. My SWA 401k does. (It even has a self directed brokerage) My AA B-Fund does not.
But to say B-fund's are "FAR SUPERIOR" to 401k's is quite a bit misleading. All B-funds are not created equal.
However as a third year F/O, I would rather have 7.3% of $130,000 versus 10.5% of $65,000
momalley81
Done spillt mah beer...
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Yes, there are HCE rules in place for B-funds.
BottomPlug said:
No they aren't. I have both. I should know.
BTW, why did you erase your snappy comment? Looked it up for yourself and realize you didn't know what you were talking about?
No argument there. But there's no reason why your wildly profitable company can't provide you a good B-fund so you don't have to contribute your own money to retirement if you choose not to.
JoeMerchant
ASA pilot
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- Mar 31, 2005
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I thought we don't compete with one another....You sure are worried about what SWA gets.....
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