SWA Contract - How good is it?

[justin15e]

I'm curious. What are some of the things that make the SWA contract so good when compared to other airlines contracts?

In addition, is SWA currently in contract negotiations with a new contract? If so, what's the status on a new contract?

 

[DH2WN]

It's not any different. Maybe a little less restrictions on what scheduling can do but they rarely screw anyone around so it's a pretty good give and take. It does happen though. I have heard some wild scheduling stories but I believe half of them. We do have our 1% who bitch and moan but most of them have never seen what it's like at other airlines. They are probably on PPlum right now complaining that have to swap aircraft a couple times a trip. It's sad that they are around.


Sounds like the new contract is going to be much about SCOPE. Lots of rumors around about code sharing and stagnating our growth. It's making everyone a bit tense.

 

[justin15e]

So, if you say that the new contract will be mostly about scope, are there any plans for a B plan retirement or any pay increases? I know SWA is currently industry leading in regards to pay with pax carriers, but that doesn't mean they aren't still behind FDX or UPS in regards to pay and benefits. Again, I'm just curious since another site I read the contract was ammendable 2 years ago.

 

[FatesPawn]

Justin,

There's ALWAYS talk about what benefits are being negotiated in our contract. I'd be SHOCKED to see anything beyond a cost of living raise with regard to pay.

With regard to retirement, we are looking for improvements, but not necessarily a "B-plan." We already get a 7.3% match on our 401k - so that's very comparable with any B-plan out there.

If you meant A-plan, neither side is interested in a Pension.

Profitsharing historically made up the difference in retirement, but as those margins get thinner, the difference is more difficult.

Look for enhancements to our scheduling section (reserves especially), COLA, and perhaps an extra couple percent in our retirement + profitsharing.

fate

 

[Skybus]

Lots of rumors around about code sharing and stagnating our growth. It's making everyone a bit tense.

???????

Perhaps u have been hanging around PPrune?? I have never heard so little re: a contract in my career here. That being said it is shocking to me the little discussion re: the codeshare and "stagnant" growth. I for one think this is a threat to future growth/upgrades.

 

[The Victors]

You probably are not hearing much because 95% of the pilots are quite happy.

 

[murano]

You probably are not hearing much because 95% of the pilots are quite happy.

Happy or clueless? A vast majority of our pilots have their heads buried in the sand when it comes to the threat of codeshare and scope. Westjet is just the beginning. The union refuses to show us the T/A on the new scope/codeshare... even though they say the company is honoring it with the Westjet deal. We'll have a new contract by the end of the 2Q09 if we're lucky.

 

[contrail67]

Happy or clueless? A vast majority of our pilots have their heads buried in the sand when it comes to the threat of codeshare and scope. Westjet is just the beginning. The union refuses to show us the T/A on the new scope/codeshare... even though they say the company is honoring it with the Westjet deal. We'll have a new contract by the end of the 2Q09 if we're lucky.

So are they hinting at outsourcing your jobs to the codesharing partners...type of thing?

 

[thruthemurk]

Justin,


With regard to retirement, we are looking for improvements, but not necessarily a "B-plan." We already get a 7.3% match on our 401k - so that's very comparable with any B-plan out there.

fate

Really? Ual =16% no match AA= 10% + A plan
even AWA =10%

 

[FatesPawn]

Isn't UAL's B-plan 9%? They have a C plan of 7% and "profitsharing" but we have profit sharing too.

If you want to compare the ENTIRE retirement picture:

401k Match = 7.3%
Profitsharing average = 7-8%

So we average about 15% of our earnings while other groups have better or worse combinations of Bplan/401k/profitsharing/pensions

Is 15% not competitive?

-fate

 

[PCL_128]

We already get a 7.3% match on our 401k - so that's very comparable with any B-plan out there.

No 401k match is ever comparable to a B-plan. B-plans give you money without you having to contribute a dime of your own money. You only receive a 401k match if you contribute. There are also more restrictions on 401k contributions than B-plan contributions. B-plans are far superior to 401ks.

 

[Alcatraz]

So are they hinting at outsourcing your jobs to the codesharing partners...type of thing?

I don't think it's quite that bad (at least not publicly). It's not like when I worked at Skyway and they threatened to shift all the flying to Mesa unless we accepted their lame*** contract.

However, "expanding" internationally with only codeshare partners rather than SWA aircraft (and pilots) is a threat to my seniority advancement and upgrade, so yes, I think this is the biggest issue in the contract. And yes, about half of our pilot group doesn't understand that.

I think the pilot group is generally happy (always with exceptions) with our current setup, but there are definitely things that we want fixed in this next contract. Being pretty happy with what we have doesn't mean we should or will lose sight of the ball during negotiations... and I'll vote "NO" if I need to (I've done it at other airlines!).

 

[murano]

Yeah, what he said. SWAPA is made up almost entirely of senior captains. There's now finally one F/O on the BOD who hopefully will keep an eye out for us F/O's who will be yanking gear for a looooong time to come.

 

[bravodude]

No 401k match is ever comparable to a B-plan. B-plans give you money without you having to contribute a dime of your own money. You only receive a 401k match if you contribute. There are also more restrictions on 401k contributions than B-plan contributions. B-plans are far superior to 401ks.

What do you guys have at AirTran!

 

[Whataburger]

Can't complain. Iron out all the side letters and throw in some code-share language, and let's vote. The people that complain the loudest don't have much to compare our language and QOL to.
Comparing our "retirement" to others is as F-ed up as a football bat. We' have never tried to be like the others. For now it works and will provide money after the 65th birthday, or 70, or 80, or whatever the old dudes change it to by then. No need to choke the golden goose or even, as United says, "Squeeze every egg out of the golden goose."

 

[PCL_128]

What do you guys have at AirTran!

A 10.5% B-plan.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

A 10.5% B-plan.

Difference is we get to keep ours reguardless what happens to the company. I truly hope you still have yours at the end of your career, hard to tell these days.

 

[ROSWELL41]

Any more rumors on SkyWest flying RJ's for you guys?

 

[FatesPawn]

No 401k match is ever comparable to a B-plan. B-plans give you money without you having to contribute a dime of your own money. You only receive a 401k match if you contribute. There are also more restrictions on 401k contributions than B-plan contributions. B-plans are far superior to 401ks.

PCL,

Why are B-plans "far superior" to a matching 401k? - I mean, Besides the fact you have to contribute your own money to get the match (which is a very good idea in any case)

We have decent investing options (depending on your investing 'prowess' some might argue otherwise) and for those with more time on their hands to do more research we have a 50% Self directed brokerage option.

If your salary exceeds the $230,000 IRC limit you still get the company "match" even though it's beyond your own contribution. The extra money goes into a 401(a)(17) plan that, while non-qualified, has an S&P 500 option that IS essentially qualified (protected from creditors.)

If you exceed the $46,000 IRC limit, we have an "excess benefit" program that either pays you in cash or allows you essentially the same investing options as the 401(a)(17) plan.

These seemed to be the same provisions I remember from my UAL days? So, in all seriousness, why is a B-fund better?

-fate

 

[FatesPawn]

Hose,

B-funds get the same protections as a 401k. It's their money.

A-funds are the traditional pension.

-fate