SWA/ATA codeshare ending?

[Dane Bramage]

Thanks for making my point guys!

canyonblue & SWA/FO:

What part of "not a slam" did you not understand? A few points:

1. I'll bet my next paycheck I'm on no one's AB list. That's as lame a comment as the koolies and BOOBs telling us to quit SWA if we don't agree with them or have constructive criticism of SWAPA.
2. I've been a participating member on this board since 1999-2000 timeframe. Don't be misled by someone's profile stats...it takes one minute to change your profile and user name.
3. I love anonymous boards like FlightInfo & PPRuNe. Anonymous doesn't mean folks can't throw BS flags or add insight into a discussion. Most SWA pilots are humble about their position in the industry. Other airline pilots reading arrogant remarks are naturally inclined to jumble all SWA pilots into that mold. The Hefner controversy is a perfect example.

I'll assume you agreed with the rest of my post. Did you get that far before you became all d*ck, balls, and no forehead?

 

[SWAdude]

Hang on a minute, guys, I have to get a beer and some popcorn.

Getting an early start today?

 

[SWAdude]

This is obviously a hot topic. It is with the SWA pilots I know.

The loyalty of pilots to their airline is always admirable. No matter what airline we work for, we will stand to the last day defending our company. Few, if any, other professions show this to this degree.

Dane,

So you should know that if you single out any group on this forum that you will be an open target. So the criticism you received should be expected. No matter how you sugar coat the jab.

And in my opinion, if you are not on anyones avoidance bid then maybe your letting a few others run the ship. As well as there are difficult Captains, there are difficult First Officers. Some just not simply manageable. So those few need to be put in their place which is not enjoyable to do. I partly do this for the next guy that flies with them in the hope that maybe they might practice some restraint. If you do not do this then you are passing it on to me. Not doing your job in my opinion. And making my job more difficult. You are not an a$$hole by holding universally acceptable standards of ones behavior in the cockpit.

I do agree with much you said in your initial post.

 

[Dane Bramage]

SWADude:

I have never had to be a prick yet to anyone. The essence of leadership is getting folks to do their job WITHOUT being an a**hole about it.

I typically use subtle humor to resolve potential problems of insubordination...it works great. Keeps you in control of the cockpit and keeps things from going in the wrong direction.

I also bring zero ego and anal retentiveness into the cockpit which might lead to those conflicts you reported experiencing.

 

[SWAdude]

SWADude:

I have never had to be a prick yet to anyone. The essence of leadership is getting folks to do their job WITHOUT being an a**hole about it.

I typically use subtle humor to resolve potential problems of insubordination...try it sometime...it works great. Keeps you in control of the cockpit and keeps things from going in the wrong direction.

I also bring zero ego and anal retentiveness into the cockpit which might lead to those conflicts you reported experiencing. Try that also.

Is it just me or did that last post seem rather contradictory.

Subtle humor does not make one aware of the difficuty. It just deflects the situation for the short term. Thanks again for holding such narrow standards.

Looks like I copied the unedited version of your post. Truly showing how you really feel.

How does it feel to think your better than most?

Zero ego and not at all anal retentive. Keep telling yourself that. I thought you said you were a pilot?

 

[Big Slick]

Deja Vu

2001
TWA Pilot: You guys screwed us over!
AAL Pilot: If it wasn't for us, you wouldn't have a job.
TWA Pilot: Don't talk to me on the bus.

2006
ATA Pilot: You guys screwed us over!
SWA Pilot: If it wasn't for us, you wouldn't have a job.
ATA Pilot: Don't talk to me on the bus.

 

[Dash Power]

I would have to agree with SWAdude on this one.

You can't be a comedian and expect someone to take you seriously.

You can't have some ego and anal retentiveness and be a decent pilot. Otherwise you would be uncertain and undisciplined.

If you are covering up the insubordination with making sure they like you, then you too are passing on the problem to me. And I say shame on you.

Confrontation is not a bad thing. As long as you are mature, direct and respectful with your criticism.

 

[SWA/FO]

News Flash........ Not everyone wants to work for SWA! ATA was a great place to work before the call to Jihad. I'm afraid the wheels started coming off when John Tague wanted to have shiny new equipment and get away from the charter market. It's too bad all the bad blood has to start as any of you at SWA could be in the same shoes someday.

News Flash - I didn't say everyone wanted to work for SWA. Just that Capt. Mega DID want to, maybe along time ago but the fact is she did. She claims to be over it, I doubt that very much - she hangs out on SWA theme threads all the time.

Southwest Airlines did what they said they were going to do. SWA did not mislead anybody. "WE WANT THE GATES". Gary Kelly even said "its all about the gates" That seeems fairly clear to me. I happen to admire people that are straight shooters. Thats what we are here at Southwest straight shooters. Now some of yall can't take that. I still haven't gotten an answer to my question - Name 1 company that wants to help the other guy?

Brain Damage - Don't feel bad, nobody on this forum ever gets my humor.

SWA/FO - imp:

 

[atafan]

SWA/FO

First of all, I agree with most of your last post regarding what Kelly said and did. Kelly has not been 100% upfront and here is where many ATA employees doubt his intentions. Kelly says that all he wants are the gates and SWA has absolutely no involvement with ATA's management or direction.

I believe he is not telling the complete truth. The truth, as I see it, is Kelly wanted the gates alright but he also wanted to control the gates he didn't get. He controlled those other gates ATA had by telling us where we could not fly via his implant named John Denisons. Everyday you work at ATA you see Kelly's fingerprints all over everything. Is this a bad thing? I don't know, that's the problem, no one really knows what SWA's intentions are with ATA. SWA says they have nothing to do with the planning at ATA yet I've been told that our investor Matlin Patterson met primarily with SWA before they decided to invest.

I am not saying SWA has bad intentions but like you said SWA isn't in the business of helping other airlines and there is much that doesn't add up. This could be a great deal for SWA and ATA employees but at this point the only thing most ATA employees sees is furloughs and shrinkage while SWA takes advantage of our shrinkage and saying they have nothing to do with our woes.

I don't blame SWA for our problems, just anxious to see what SWA's true intentions are. It isn't just the gates, that's old news.

 

[CaptainMark]

Name 1 company that wants to help the other guy?

imp:

SWA!!! they want to HELP the other guys go out of business...

 

[capt. megadeth]

News Flash - I didn't say everyone wanted to work for SWA. Just that Capt. Mega DID want to, maybe along time ago but the fact is she did. She claims to be over it, I doubt that very much - she hangs out on SWA theme threads all the time.
- imp:

Newsflash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Read my previous posts and maybe it will get through your thick skull why I "hang out" on SWA threads. I may be an airhead sometimes but I know enough to know that if I wanted to work for SWA, I would be sucking up to all of you guys and not ripping on your airline. Now be a good little boy and PUT THE CRACKPIPE DOWN before you get a drug test and have to participate in Clear Skies buddy.

P.S. I also wanted to work at American, Delta, etc. etc. Just let it go......

 

[Dane Bramage]

SWAdude:

I think it's just you.

I immediately edited my original post because I realized it jumped to conclusions about you...the same way you jumped to conclusions about me.

Subtle humor is not about being a comedian. It's about getting someone to see your point (or their mistake) without using techniques that result in a wall being placed in the cockpit. It helps to keep this job enjoyable and keep the BP normal.

I refuse to let differences of opinion, different techniques, or some FO's weird cockpit habits ruin my trip. I don't get irritated at little nit-noid things the other pilot does. I don't force techniques on anyone. I don't micro-manage the cockpit. I instruct when necessary.

I have flown with a few guys and gals who obviously went out of there way to make this job harder than it is. Those trips SUCK! I will not be those Captains. Sorry, bro.

Of course, I've only been flying for 27 years...what the hell do I know?

 

[SWAdude]

SWAdude:

I think it's just you.

I immediately edited my original post because I realized it jumped to conclusions about you...the same way you jumped to conclusions about me.

I quote you: "I'll bet my next paycheck I'm on no one's AB list."

I don't think I jumped to conclusions about you.

Subtle humor is not about being a comedian. It's about getting someone to see your point (or their mistake) without using techniques that result in a wall being placed in the cockpit. It helps to keep this job enjoyable and keep the BP normal.

Agree. But some behaviors are unacceptable. Can be down right unsafe. Do you accept these with your humor? I hope not. Because you have handed this down to me to deal with. No different than a plane with a problem that you didn't disclose.

I refuse to let differences of opinion, different techniques, or some FO's weird cockpit habits ruin my trip. I don't get irritated at little nit-noid things the other pilot does. I don't force techniques on anyone. I don't micro-manage the cockpit. I instruct when necessary.

I do the same. Many different ways to skin this cat. We are not talking about this.

I have flown with a few guys and gals who obviously went out of there way to make this job harder than it is. Those trips SUCK! I will not be those Captains. Sorry, bro.

Thanks again for making me do the dirty work that YOU should be doing. I make this better for you, but you won't do it for me.

Of course, I've only been flying for 27 years...what the hell do I know?

Sounds like more than my 28!
All but eight in the airlines.

Its not about whether or not ones an a$$hole. Its about doing the right thing. Especially when its not easy.

 

[Dash Power]

Its not about whether or not ones an a$$hole. Its about doing the right thing. Especially when its not easy.

That is well said. And thank you for trying to make my job easier.

And I do the same for you. Keep up the good work.

Just to be clear, we are only talking about the people we ALL know about. None others. Only one here and there. Most all make my job soooo easy.

 

[SWA/FO]

I will agree, we don't know what Kelly is thinking. I don't have the same view as you do. I have no idea what is next...

 

[FlyinGuy]

I still think that ATA and SWA will continue to EVOLVE their relationship. I know that things are tough for you guys and I would hate to go to work each day with the uncertianty that you guys have to. With the way SWA is moving lately, it would not surprise me if ATA was doing overseas and SWA domestic with a future full merger in the cards.

That is just one guys speculation....good luck to you guys no matter what happens.

 

[AA717driver]

"You guys were bankrupt. At least now you have a healthy airline to come back to."

"You guys would have been here if you could have gotten hired here."

"This is just survival of the fittest."

"Hey, your management did this to you."

"Hey, our management did this to you. The pilot group had nothing to say about it."

"This was an asset acquisition, not a merger."

"Two great airlines. One great future.'

Wait! This thread IS about the TWA/AA merger, right?

What?! It's about SWA/ATA? Oh, sorry, I guess I just got confused...

What's WITH those airlines from the DFW area? TC

 

[Pickle]

I still think that ATA and SWA will continue to EVOLVE their relationship. I know that things are tough for you guys and I would hate to go to work each day with the uncertianty that you guys have to. With the way SWA is moving lately, it would not surprise me if ATA was doing overseas and SWA domestic with a future full merger in the cards.

That is just one guys speculation....good luck to you guys no matter what happens.

Right, SWA pilots will just sit idly by enjoying their 737 flying with layovers in lovely OMA and OKC while ATA pilots, being paid about 50% less of course, are flying 757s overseas and enjoying layovers in London, Madrid, Paris, etc etc etc.

 

[HalinTexas]

and enjoying layovers in London, Madrid, Paris, etc etc etc.

You obviously don't know much about ATA.

Domestic layovers: DFW, DCA, LGA, maybe ONT.

Extra-domestic: OGG, HNL. OK, I grant you this is pretty good.

Military: Japan, can't recall where. Could be Iwakuni, Misawa, or Tokyo. SEA. BUD, which is good when it ain't cold, I hear. SNN, this one's good. KWI, sometimes. Not very frequently. Yes, that's Kuwait.

That's it. Way down from what it used to be.

Ill trade ya.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Hey Pickle....
Read the rest of the line that you forgot to put into bold print.