SWA/ATA codeshare ending?

[HalinTexas]

First of all, no you don't feel our pain. So don't try to commiserate with us.

Second, as far as ATA ceasing to exist without SWA's financing. Air Tran was (brutally) honest with us about their intentions. They told us straight up that they wanted us to fly MDW routes for them until they could get spooled up enough to take over and then it was "adios" to ATA in MDW and "adios" to lots of jobs. But they were up front about it. The America West deal would have been great, but as has been said before, that financing just somehow disappeared at the last minute.

In comes SWA, looking like some kind of knight in shining armor, saying that there will be this code share and everything will be peachy keen when in fact that was never the intention. This code share isn't growing. 2x day LGA-HOU begins, yes, but 2x day MDW-SFO ends.

Telling us that we still have a job and a seniority number and it is just business may help you sleep at night, but it doesn't do any good for those of us directly involved.

I'm more than happy to bite that hand, but it isn't feeding me. What it is doing does start with "f" and end in "ing" and have the same amount of letters as "feeding". Just replace "eed" with "uck" and you will see what I am getting at.

Just don't try to act all magnanimous and pat yourselves on the back about how you "feel our pain". You don't feel squat. Me and almost 200 other pilots lost over 50% of our pay and our captains seats. Over 300 pilots have lost their jobs and 100% of their pay. That is just the pilot group. DId you know that ATA has lost over 50% of it's employees since CH11?? We used to have over 8,000 employees, now we are less than 4,000.

And don't talk to me on the employee bus in MDW either. Just keep ignoring me and pretending you don't see me sitting right there across from you. So sorry to offend you with my bottom feeder code sharing self.

Yeah.

And, you're still welcome on our jumpseats. What few we have left.

 

[Pickle]

Yeah.

And, you're still welcome on our jumpseats. What few we have left.

Yeah, what Hal said.

Except, Hal, they aren't "our" jumpseats anymore since the first downgrade, remember?

 

[mdf]

And don't talk to me on the employee bus in MDW either. Just keep ignoring me and pretending you don't see me sitting right there across from you. So sorry to offend you with my bottom feeder code sharing self.[/quote]

Pickle,

I will say hello to you on the bus at MDW.

 

[Jim Smyth]

I just read our latest union rag today and Gary Kelly had a whole page in it. The union wanted to make sure there wasnt any issues with the code share with ATA and Gary did a review of what has transpired since this whole thing unfolded in 2004. He explained what has happened with us and ATA and that ATA has gotten a new investor recently.

SWA was paid back what it was owed from ATA and right now we are even up with them. It also said that with the new invester that we signed a 7 year code share agreement with ATA and we would work not to overlap routes. He also stated that we should both make 40 Million a year each with the code share agreement.

Personally I hope that ATA is turning the corner and will prosper in the very near future.

 

[TristarCostar]

Glad to see I am not the only one at ATA that dosen't subscribe to this whole "SWA saves ATA BS." I would much rather take a dagger to the heart and be done with it rather than SWA slowly slowly bleeding us dry. There is a reason why we don't overlap the scheduled service routes: SWA took them all. With exception to the routes to airports who require slots. Don't worry we'll keep paying for those at your benefit.

The one question I have for SWA crews in respect to the codeshare:

Why don't you include information about the codeshare to you passengers in PA announcements? Every SWA flight I have been on dosen't say a word. However, we are required to make PA's on all flights. Excluding military charter.

The rich keep getting richer and the poorer keep getting poorer.

Enjoy!

 

[7S3W7A]

The one question I have for SWA crews in respect to the codeshare:

Why don't you include information about the codeshare to you passengers in PA announcements?

It's kinda like the hot chick and the fat chick hanging out together. The hot chick doesn't really want the fat chick around when important people can see. She tends to lower her head a little hoping no one notices they are together. The fat chick always wants to be seen with the hot chick as it may make her look less ugly and fat.

 

[SWA/FO]

Is this a re-run? Southwest management makes decisions for SWA. Name 1 company out there that is watching out for the other guy? Just name 1.

Sorry about your company....

ATA has lots of great folks - that is a fact. We didn't make business decisions for George & Co... they did that themselves.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Glad to see I am not the only one at ATA that dosen't subscribe to this whole "SWA saves ATA BS." I would much rather take a dagger to the heart and be done with it rather than SWA slowly slowly bleeding us dry. There is a reason why we don't overlap the scheduled service routes: SWA took them all. With exception to the routes to airports who require slots. Don't worry we'll keep paying for those at your benefit.

The one question I have for SWA crews in respect to the codeshare:

Why don't you include information about the codeshare to you passengers in PA announcements? Every SWA flight I have been on dosen't say a word. However, we are required to make PA's on all flights. Excluding military charter.

The rich keep getting richer and the poorer keep getting poorer.

Enjoy!

I know that the management types at Southwest do hold ATA in very high regards and this was way before you guys started having problems. I am not sure why we don't mention the code share agreement with ATA and am going to follow that up internally. The only thing I get as a Pilot is in my paperwork packet thats tells me its a code share flight. From now on I will be mentioning the code share when I do my PA address on all of those flights. You are correct and it is wrong if we are not doing it also. Now with that being said I am not sure if the Flight attendants make any announcements but will find that out too. I do wish you guys the best and have some friends there at ATA too.

 

[TristarCostar]

Jim Smyth,

Thank you for your time with that. I really appreciate it. I certainly will agree with ALL on this thread that ATA mgmt. screwed things up LONG before SWA ever came knocking on the door. George and Company were a total letdown to the employee group. However the letdowns continue with an ex SWA manager in place as CEO of ATA. We have gone from 60+ airframes to 29 as of today. 300+ on furlough (thats ALOT for us). Sometimes chapter 7 may have felt better than this.

90% of the time I am on a SWA flight is for positioning somewhere in the States for an overseas venture. Maybe its just the luck of the draw for the flights that I have been on, but no mention of the codeshare. Anytime I have been on a CASS jumpseat (thank you) for the rides, the Captain shows me on the paperwork that the flight is a codeshare deal.

Just seems awfully one sided from the seats and positions we at ATA sit in.

Respectfully

TristarCostar

 

[ABOVE ME]

All a shame, the employees at ATA took a good screwing. Things there went to hell so fast. AWA would have been a good deal...DAM!!! ATA was an Awesome place to work, great trips, great people, really could make you sit down and cry. Great memorys of that place...............fun fun fun, no wonder it couldnt last longer.

 

[atafan]

Sometimes chapter 7 may have felt better than this.

Friends, I have been through Chapter 7 more than once and believe me life at ATA today is much better than Chapter 7. Hope, there is still hope and a paycheck, albeit much smaller.

Use this time to find other employement or enjoy the ride.

 

[Jim Smyth]

90% of the time I am on a SWA flight is for positioning somewhere in the States for an overseas venture. Maybe its just the luck of the draw for the flights that I have been on, but no mention of the codeshare. Anytime I have been on a CASS jumpseat (thank you) for the rides, the Captain shows me on the paperwork that the flight is a codeshare deal.

Just seems awfully one sided from the seats and positions we at ATA sit in.

Respectfully

TristarCostar

I know this is lame and shouldnt be an excuse but I believe that we once code shared with Iceland Air (dont know if we still do or not) and I think it was like one flight a week out of BWI many years ago. This code share stuff is new for us and I am not sure if this has ever been brought up before. I have never heard any talk about mentioning the code share in the PA announcement and always thought it would have been a function of marketing/advertising/reservations. But since you brought it up it does make allot of sense to do it on the Airplane since you have a captive audiance. I will talk to the Cheifs next week when I go back in the office and also look into our inflight training in Chicago to see what they can tell me about it. I do think it deffinately needs to go both ways.

 

[Jim Smyth]

atafan, I see the DC-9 type rating. You an old Midway guy?

 

[scoreboard]

First of all, no you don't feel our pain. So don't try to commiserate with us.

Second, as far as ATA ceasing to exist without SWA's financing. Air Tran was (brutally) honest with us about their intentions. They told us straight up that they wanted us to fly MDW routes for them until they could get spooled up enough to take over and then it was "adios" to ATA in MDW and "adios" to lots of jobs. But they were up front about it. The America West deal would have been great, but as has been said before, that financing just somehow disappeared at the last minute.

In comes SWA, looking like some kind of knight in shining armor, saying that there will be this code share and everything will be peachy keen when in fact that was never the intention. This code share isn't growing. 2x day LGA-HOU begins, yes, but 2x day MDW-SFO ends.

Telling us that we still have a job and a seniority number and it is just business may help you sleep at night, but it doesn't do any good for those of us directly involved.

I'm more than happy to bite that hand, but it isn't feeding me. What it is doing does start with "f" and end in "ing" and have the same amount of letters as "feeding". Just replace "eed" with "uck" and you will see what I am getting at.

Just don't try to act all magnanimous and pat yourselves on the back about how you "feel our pain". You don't feel squat. Me and almost 200 other pilots lost over 50% of our pay and our captains seats. Over 300 pilots have lost their jobs and 100% of their pay. That is just the pilot group. DId you know that ATA has lost over 50% of it's employees since CH11?? We used to have over 8,000 employees, now we are less than 4,000.

And don't talk to me on the employee bus in MDW either. Just keep ignoring me and pretending you don't see me sitting right there across from you. So sorry to offend you with my bottom feeder code sharing self.

OK, so i reread my post, maybe a little oficious. But you are being disingenuous to say the least. I'm not patting anyones back least my own, just laying out the facts. This is business, not welfare.

You admit you agree with me, the AWA deal dried up, AirTran would have bleed you until they dropped you like a hot potato. We come along with a plan and now we are the bad guy?

I thought this code share would be a great thing for you guys. This is business. That great plan went by the wayside when alot of factors out of SWA's control went south; oil, airlines not consolidating, bankruptcies allowing competitors free reign, can't find enough 737's, it goes on and on.

I'm sorry the facts sting, but ATA would be done and gone by now if not for SWA doing what they did. Because it is business, SWA will take every advantage of this deal, remember, you signed up for it.

And dude, I don't ignore anybody, if your on that bus, I and about 5000 other pilots will gladly talk to you. Stop making it seem that we are your enemy, that we are the basis for all your problems. We didn't put you in the position of seeking outside help, you guys did. No, we don't think of you as bottom feeders neither, jeesh... Attitudes like that will ensure your 4000 become zero.

 

[HalinTexas]

Our management has put this codeshare as it's primary focus. We celebrated 100 days of codeshare last spring. Nothing from SWA. We just got a really cheezy company morale boosting attempt, for lack of a better term. "5 C's" it's called. "Codeshare - make the Southwest codeshare work." "Charter" is another "c." There is no independent focus. Granted this is from our management, and it is very weak. It's a joke, really. Has to be.

We expected a lot more from Denison. IMO, we are being set up to fail.

Pardon me if I don't say thank you for "bailing" us out.