SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[dh82dvr]

B727Driver, I can't pay attention to what you posted.

 

[texman]

You are referring to our furloughs in 2008. Our management has said several times that it was a mistake. Please don't make the pilot group at AirTran do time for our managements poor decisions. We never claimed they were smart, but after that bad decision they decided we need more pilots, and started hiring and it kept going monthly.
For the guy who thinks the SWA pilots are getting nothing out of this deal. Maybe the pilots of Airtran can get together and have a bake sale monthly and all proceeds will go to you.

Bake Sale. LOL!

 

[B727Driver]

dh82dvr, my ADD kicks in as well. I love a dead heat in a blimp race.

OYS, in the great scheme of things, the AT guys are getting a nice raise, benefits, domiciles and other things that have been posted before. A SW pilot will not get any of these, ok ATL as an additional crew base. Other than the new base, what do they stand to gain that is ‘fair and equitable’? I hope the SLI is fair and equitable for all. Another USAir/AWA acquisition is not what needs to happen.

 

[Steeler Fan]

Go steelers!

 

[waveflyer]

"BTW DOH would increase every SW Pilot's seniority significantly, but hurt Airtran guys up to 25%."-
Funnyman- can you tell me about the gains junior SWA FOs would see w/ DOH? When was the last time AT hired prior to the snapshot- it's my understanding that we hired a few hundred in 2008 after AT stopped hiring- meaning strict DOH would have all those FOs at the bottom of the snapshot list-
Do you think that's fair?

Pay is a good argument- most airlines you give up the seniority of being a senior FO to be a junior captain for 30-40% more pay- AT is getting the 30-40% up in pay and a huge stress release by gaining swa mgmt and no looming strikes - how can that not be considered-

 

[dicko]

6000 disgrutel pilots .

I have no idea.

I do know that "6000 discrutel pilots" sounds is a little sinister. Is that the new Mongolian airline ? Are they ALPA ?

 

[Ty Webb]

Pay is a good argument- most airlines you give up the seniority of being a senior FO to be a junior captain for 30-40% more pay- AT is getting the 30-40% up in pay and a huge stress release by gaining swa mgmt and no looming strikes - how can that not be considered-

You guys crack me up. You just don't quit, do you?

For every argument you raise, there is an equal and opposite argument. These things have all been debated ad nauseum. How about giving it a rest?

 

[ivauir]

Hundreds of people left majors and the military for UPS between 2003-2008 BECAUSE of the "stability and job security." Very similar to the same group leaving for swa up to 2000.

Interesting analogy. One major difference is the result.

You don't need to understand fuel hedging to look at decades of profitability and debt vs equity.

 

[Lonestar]

No you weren't. Jonjuan is not a AT pilot. ...

Nice try...I'm not buying it though.

 

[dicko]

Nice try...I'm not buying it though.

He's not an AirTran pilot. However, Bob Dylan is a SWA pilot

 

[jonjuan]

Go steelers!

You must be proud.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6471433

PITTSBURGH -- Rashard Mendenhall has created a stir with comments made on his official Twitter page regarding Osama bin Laden's death.

The Pittsburgh Steelers running back on Monday tweeted: "What kind of person celebrates death? It's amazing how people can HATE a man they have never even heard speak. We've only heard one side..."

Mendenhall didn't hold back, even making a reference to the Sept. 11 attacks.

Rashard Mendenhall is the latest example of a player needing to use restraint before posting his thoughts on Twitter, James Walker writes. Story

"We'll never know what really happened. I just have a hard time believing a plane could take a skyscraper down demolition style."

The Steelers felt compelled to act. On Tuesday, team president Art Rooney II released a statement.

"I have not spoken with Rashard, so it is hard to explain or even comprehend what he meant with his recent Twitter comments. The entire Steelers organization is very proud of the job our military personnel have done and we can only hope this leads to our troops coming home soon."

Mendenhall, who profiles himself as a "conversationalist and professional athlete" on his Twitter page, turned some heads in March, as well, when he supported a comment by Minnesota Vikings running back Adrian Peterson comparing the NFL to "modern-day slavery."

"Anyone with knowledge of the slave trade and the NFL could say that these two parallel eachother," Mendenhall posted at the time.

Mendenhall is coming off a tremendous season, as he led the AFC champions in carries (324), rushing yards (1,273) and rushing touchdowns (13). He has 2,439 yards in three seasons since being drafted in the 2008 first round out of Illinois.

In the 2010 postseason, Mendenhall ran for 230 yards on 61 carries in three games with four touchdowns, as Pittsburgh defeated the Baltimore Ravens (31-24) and New York Jets (24-19), before falling to the Green Bay Packers 31-25 in the Super Bowl.

Among his other bin Laden tweets:

"I believe in God. I believe we're ALL his children. And I believe HE is the ONE and ONLY judge."

"Those who judge others, will also be judged themselves."

"For those of you who said you want to see Bin Laden burn ... I ask how would God feel about your heart?"

"There is not an ignorant bone in my body. I just encourage you to think."

Mendenhall's string of tweets ended around 6 p.m. Monday. He has not tweeted since.

Sports radio talk shows in Pittsburgh -- and around the nation -- were fielding calls on Tuesday about his comments.

 

[PapaWoody]

Well guys your SLI predictions are not supported by any method of a past arbitrator's ruling. You may be correct but my understanding of the judicial system suggests that you hypothesis is very unlikely. An arbitrator will make sure that no SW pilot is PRESENTLY affected negatively by the SLI. Arbitrators won't play the "what if" game on lots of growth or stagation predictions for the future. Read arbitrations over the last couple decades, less than DOH never happened and yes ere large pay differences between some of the airlines involved. I re-iterate....I believe no SW pilots seniority should be negatively affected.

Conveniently ignoring the very recent Chautaqua-Shuttle America arbitration, a-g-a-i-n. Still the closest situation as far as the contractual disparities, btw.

PapaWoody

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

You make a lot of sense. However, do think your new boss would rather have 6000 disgrutel pilots or 50% of the 1700 new pilots? The reason I say 50% of the 1700 is because most likely 50% would be happy with being on the bottom. There would only be 50% of the 1700 that would be unhappy.

I hope "our new boss" is looking out for the betterment of the new company as a whole. If that is indeed the case, he may be more interested in the 26,000 (or more) other employees (as well as the company itself and more importantly the share/stakeholders), than ~7000 pilots that might get their feelings hurt.

 

[funnyman12]

Papawoody.....historically different size equipment that pay different wages are looked at by an arbitrator....ie...747 vs. 737. Also Frontier in bankruptcy may have had a lil thang to do with it....a-g-a-i-n you avoid the facts. Actually taking an FI break have fun....papa read your history books plz.

 

[MILF Hunter]

Hundreds of people left majors and the military for UPS between 2003-2008 BECAUSE of the "stability and job security." Very similar to the same group leaving for swa up to 2000. Yes, dude-swa's "job security" only came to fruition because of Scott Topping and Gary Kelly's decision to fuel hedge. Something which was completely unknown to those who "were looking for job stability."
This is what the arbitrator will be looking at when deciding the sli. "How much did you really know about the future of the airline and its stability, especially when AAI was looking at 4 year upgrades mid-2000s??"

For the record, among those hundreds that left for UPS were plenty from AirTran. They also left for CAL, DAL, FDX, SWA, Cathay, Emirates, etc.

As far as SWA job security 'only' coming from the fuel hedges, ask our 25-30+ year Captains how secure they feel. They were making millions long before hedging. While you're at it, ask them how they spend the millions they've made over that time frame too.

BTW, aren't you too busy shouting at your pilots to verify their seniority to be speculating SLI (which y'all constantly ask your pilots to reefrain fro doing)?

 

[MILF Hunter]

I hope "our new boss" is looking out for the betterment of the new company as a whole. If that is indeed the case, he may be more interested in the 26,000 (or more) other employees (as well as the company itself and more importantly the share/stakeholders), than ~7000 pilots that might get their feelings hurt.

Wait till you trannies ask your new management to back your MC's claims for the panel of arbitrators. Oh wait...your new management is our current management. I wouldn't count on much help from them.

You trannies might miss your beloved BMT before you know it. Time will tell!

 

[dh82dvr]

I thought the panel of 3 arbitrators was in the process agreement signed by all 4 parties. Why would the new management back out of an agreement they signed?

 

[dicko]

Wait till you trannies ask your new management to back your MC's claims for the panel of arbitrators. Oh wait...your new management is our current management. I wouldn't count on much help from them.

You trannies might miss your beloved BMT before you know it. Time will tell!

Let's break your cunning plan down;

Plan A:

Convince the "Trannies" that if a non advantageous arbitrated SLI is reached, SWAPA will march into GK's office and demand that AirTran be run as a separate company.

Plan B:

Convince the "Trannies" that B.J. will perjure himself before a panel of arbiters by stating that AirTran was moments from disaster and its pilots were inches from unemployment.




I'm wondering about "plan C". Whilst also wondering why you're putting so much effort into something that you don't fear. Working against a pilot group who holds zero animosity for yours ?

 

[scoreboardII]

I think he means now that both companies management is in the loop because AT wanted it that way, that both sides of management have a say on arbitrators, so in essence, SWA now has two votes.

 

[dicko]

_________ disregard.

 

[Lear70]

I think he means now that both companies management is in the loop because AT wanted it that way, that both sides of management have a say on arbitrators, so in essence, SWA now has two votes.

The list of neutrals will be exchanged on May 12th when we also exchange certified seniority lists and initial SLI proposals.

 

[Steeler Fan]

You must be proud.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6471433

PITTSBURGH -- Rashard Mendenhall has created a stir with comments made on his official Twitter page regarding Osama bin Laden's death.

..............................................................................

The Steelers felt compelled to act. On Tuesday, team president Art Rooney II released a statement.

"I have not spoken with Rashard, so it is hard to explain or even comprehend what he meant with his recent Twitter comments. The entire Steelers organization is very proud of the job our military personnel have done and we can only hope this leads to our troops coming home soon."

I'm proud of the Rooney's handling of it. Classy ownership.

 

[Ty Webb]

Conveniently ignoring the very recent Chautaqua-Shuttle America arbitration, a-g-a-i-n. Still the closest situation as far as the contractual disparities, btw.

PapaWoody

PW, if you don't understand the difference between a bankrupt turboprop operator (Shuttle America) and a profitable major airline (AirTran Airways) then I hope you are on your MC . . . . . . . . but I doubt it. :laugh:

I'm sure they are much better informed than that.

 

[stalker]

I understand this!

e Numbers Do Not Lie...REACT! LUV
Rating: 7 out of 10
Analyst Recommendation: Moderate Buy

AAI
Rating: 2 out of 10
Analyst Recommendation: Hold

FINANCIAL HIGHLIGHTS
..........................LUV..............AAI
Sales*:..................12.58 Bil....... 2.68 Bil
Income*:................453.00 Mil.......41.76 Mil
Sales Growth*:..........+16.90%.........+11.90%
Income Growth*:........+363.60%.........-71.40%
Net Profit Margin:........3.60%...........1.56%
Debt/Equity Ratio:........0.51............1.81
Beta:.....................1.07............0.67
EPS:......................0.61............0.26
Forward P/E:.............11.95...........41.28
P/E:.....................18.81...........25.62
Market Cap:..............8.68 Bil.........1.01 Bil
Shares Outstanding:.....747.96 Mil......136.25 Mil

* Last 12 months

Pay particular attention to Forward P/E...wow

 

[PapaWoody]

PW, if you don't understand the difference between a bankrupt turboprop operator and AirTran, then I hope you are on your MC, but I doubt it. :laugh:

Actually, Ty I do understand the difference. My point is that Shuttle America's contract, one that was due to their bankruptcy, relative to Chautaqua's contract was similar to the relative differences in your contract versus ours. The disparity was a big factor in the construction of the ISL. The only difference to your situation is that Shuttle America at least had the excuse of bankruptcy for why their contract didn't stack up; sadly, you have no excuses for the sorry state of your contract, except for the recalcitrance of your management, I suppose. Happily, both of those detriments to your career will be fixed by becoming part of SWAPA. Welcome aboard!

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[Ty Webb]

Tell it to the Arbitrators. I'm sure they'll be impressed.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Ssdd

This thread and the 100 just like it are such crap. This is so stupid I can't believe it. You didn't see the NWA/DAL pilots acting this way. No SLI threads on UAL/CAL either. This is unprofessional, unproductive and it needs to stop now.
Bottom line is the NCs will agree or they will not. If there is an agreement the members of both sides will accept it or they will not. If there is no member ratified agreement it will go to arbitration. If it does we will all have to live with the award and thats it. You get what you get and you don't throw a fit.
Of course growth would ease the pain. But if you really believe that there will be growth as a result of this you are smoking crack laced with meth. The real odds of growth out of this acquisition are about the same as this SLI being solved on Flight Info.The yield isn't there especially at $112 oil. We will be stagnant for a long time to come so we need to figure out how to get along no matter how this turns out for us.
The worst case scenario for either pilot group is not relative senoirity or a staple but a toxic environment like they have at LCC.

Luv
Ghetto

 

[Ty Webb]

Actually, Ty I do understand the difference. My point is that Shuttle America's contract, one that was due to their bankruptcy, relative to Chautaqua's contract was similar to the relative differences in your contract versus ours.

Ha-ha. While you're at it, let's see a comparison of SWA pay and benefits in 1989 (your 16th year) relative to AirTran in 2011 (our 16th year). Our upside, with 50 orders (33% increase over present fleet) and just scratching international markets, is much higher than a stagnant, 40 year-old carrier.

We all respect what SWA has built, but if you really want to compare us to Shuttle America/Chataqua, you're just kidding yourself, and insulting us.

 

[Ty Webb]

This thread and the 100 just like it are such crap. This is so stupid I can't believe it. You didn't see the NWA/DAL pilots acting this way. No SLI threads on UAL/CAL either. This is unprofessional, unproductive and it needs to stop now.
Bottom line is the NCs will agree or they will not. If there is an agreement the members of both sides will accept it or they will not. If there is no member ratified agreement it will go to arbitration. If it does we will all have to live with the award and thats it. You get what you get and you don't throw a fit.
Of course growth would ease the pain. But if you really believe that there will be growth as a result of this you are smoking crack laced with meth. The real odds of growth out of this acquisition are about the same as this SLI being solved on Flight Info.The yield isn't there especially at $112 oil. We will be stagnant for a long time to come so we need to figure out how to get along no matter how this turns out for us.
The worst case scenario for either pilot group is not relative senoirity or a staple but a toxic environment like they have at LCC.

Luv
Ghetto

I agree 100%, except I believe you'll find the growth WILL be there. We will be saving a lot in overlap, plus providing our pax with 35 more of your destinations, plus providing your pax with 35 more of ours!

Throw in the fact that we have barely scratched the surface, in regards to the near-international destinations; I think we will see that growth.

 

[stalker]

Ty what good would that do? 1989 SWA is not buying AAI. 2011 SWA is buying 2011 AAI.