SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[On Your Six]

We finally agree on something. ALPA sucks and can't do anything right.

I don't think it is that extreme, but ALPA is also a business with dues, and they may not always do everything for the benefit of the pilots, only.


OYS

 

[madjack]

FYI,

Our current CBA does protect CPs from being displaced from a base by more senior pilots (CPs) unless there is a vacancy bid. For instance if the vacancy bid for a future SWA ATL base is 0 on the CP side, a more senior CP cannot bump a more junior ATL based CP.

 

[Cometman]

To over simplify my opinion is there are four possibilities an arbitrator could rule.......1. Staple (never has happened/not legal),

I missed something when I read the rule. Where did it say it is illegal? If the arbitrator thinks it would be fair is he prevented from stapling because it is against the law?

 

[On Your Six]

To over simplify my opinion is there are four possibilities an arbitrator could rule.......1. Staple (never has happened/not legal),

I missed something when I read the rule. Where did it say it is illegal? If the arbitrator thinks it would be fair is he prevented from stapling because it is against the law?

Bond/McKaskil bill doesn't allow a staple job I think.(or the extent of what AA (APA) did to TWA)


OYS

 

[madjack]

OYS,

I agree there is no way of predicting what an arbitrator will do...with that said a negotiated settlement would be a MUCH more desirable outcome for both parties and the ultimate combined group. It is also what management wants to happen. I suppose the logic is that a negotiated solution will help preserve the SWA culture whereas an arbitrated result will be more contentious if one party is viewed as getting a "better" deal.

The flip side of our CBA is that we have and will continue to downgrade our own CPs based on the manning requirements the company determines.

In other words the concept that a seat is protected does not even apply to the current SWA seniority list.

Our NC and SWAPA organization does not fear arbitration. Many pilots I have talked to on the line feel that arbitration would probably result in a better outcome for the current SWA pilots.

I assume that discussions with management and study of recent arbitration awards (notably the differences in the companies involved) has given our NC confidence. We also have an agreement (SL8) with the company that reopens negotiations if SWAPA/SWA view any award as unacceptable.

 

[Bill Nelson]

Bond/McKaskil bill doesn't allow a staple job I think.

Nothing in B/M keeps a stapler away. Any solution is fair game so long as it is fair and equitable.

 

[On Your Six]

Nothing in B/M keeps a stapler away. Any solution is fair game so long as it is fair and equitable.

How about it is tougher to just staple? Fair and equitable is different if SWA was acquiring a BK carrier or one that had a different business plan. Instead, AT is a profitable LCC that flies more INTL routes, with the same type of planes. AT's main hub, slots at DCA and more at LGA, make it a valuable pick up for SWA, which any arbitrator would pick up on. So Bill, don't get too excited about any possibility of something similar to a staple.


OYS

 

[Bill Nelson]

Our NC and SWAPA organization does not fear arbitration. Many pilots I have talked to on the line feel that arbitration would probably result in a better outcome for the current SWA pilots.

I ran into a SWAPA guy yesterday afternoon in the lounge. He was very pleased at the Bob Jordan announcement.

I'm slow so it took me a few minutes and a lot of explaining before I understood what he was talking about. If this goes to arbitration, which SWA does not want, there will be 4 parties allowed in the Arbitration. SWA. AirTran (with our very own Bob Jordan running the show), SWAPA and ALPA.

Basically 3 parties representing 40,000 employees are on one side and ALPA representing 1500 on the other. SWAPA says the company is fully behind its pilots and that AirTran will be behind SWAPA too because they know ALPA will be off the property soon enough.

He was very excited about the new found confidence in a negotiated deal. He didn't figure even ALPA would be dumb enough to go to arbitration armed with only a spoon and face SWA, SWAPA, and AirTran while they are all holding Nukes.

I slept good last night.

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

Honestly, I really think that OYS is doing more damage to the Airtran pilots with his Dumbass comments than he is helping. It is going to be really fun kicking OYS's ass out of ATL when we are one airline. Here to seeing my Airtran brothers online!

 

[On Your Six]

I ran into a SWAPA guy yesterday afternoon in the lounge. He was very pleased at the Bob Jordan announcement.

I'm slow so it took me a few minutes and a lot of explaining before I understood what he was talking about. If this goes to arbitration, which SWA does not want, their will be 4 parties allowed in the Arbitration. SWA. AirTran (with our very own Bob Jordan), SWAPA and ALPA.

Basically 3 parties representing 40,000 employees are on one side and ALPA representing 1500 on the other. SWAPA says the company is fully behind its pilots and that AirTran will be behind SWAPA too because they know ALPA will be off the property soon enough.

He was very excited about the new found confidence in a negotiated deal. He didn't figure even ALPA would be dumb enough to go to arbitration with a
spoon and face SWA, SWAPA, and AirTran while they are holding Nukes.

I slept good last night.

In arbitration, SWA, SWAPA, and AirTran are at the mercy of the judges. They are paid to be fair and neutral, with no intimidation. If they want a fair deal, ALPA will go for arbitration, which most AT pilots will want if your SWAPA deal isn't completely fair.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Honestly, I really think that OYS is doing more damage to the Airtran pilots with his Dumbass comments than he is helping. It is going to be really fun kicking OYS's ass out of ATL when we are one airline. Here to seeing my Airtran brothers online!

I just want them to get a fair deal, and after watching the Frontier offer, I don't know if SWAPA can do it. Arbitration is fair for everyone, unless you are scared of an outcome, one that you planned NOT to be fair. And, you obviously have never been to ATL. Delta owns 70% of the World's busiest airport. And we can't wait to see you TRY to increase the productivity of your gates at the World's busiest airport. Good luck with that.


OYS

 

[ATLplt]

I suppose the logic is that a negotiated solution will help preserve the SWA culture whereas an arbitrated result will be more contentious if one party is viewed as getting a "better" deal.

madjack, What is so contentious about a group of neutrals that take facts and precedent and rule on what is presented from BOTH sides?

Our NC and SWAPA organization does not fear arbitration. Many pilots I have talked to on the line feel that arbitration would probably result in a better outcome for the current SWA pilots.

If this is true, then why do so many of you tout how bad arbitration would be for the culture of the airline? The problem I see is that AirTran pilots aren't going to accept a screw-job on seniority, and SWA pilots don't seem to want a single AirTran guy above them in seniority. So, where exactly does that leave us?

I would LOVE to think that we could all be reasonable in voting on a proposed list, but feel that there are some serious problems in how each group regards the other's stake in the game. I do not envy the job of MC members, as they will both have a hard time convincing their respective groups of an acceptable outcome to vote on.

 

[Bill Nelson]

"Sir, there really was no plan for AirTran without SWA buying us. We had sold or deferred as many planes as we could and we had nowhere to go if we found money to purchase the aircraft. I understand the ALPA pilots had expectations of rapid upgrades and grand visions but their hopes were unfounded. They had not seen behind the curtain, I have. Sir, I can honestly tell you that each AirTran pilot will be better off at the bottom of the SWA list than they ever would have been with a stand alone AirTran. This SWAPA offer is ultimately fair and equitable and it is AirTrans position that you should accept their proposal." .......AirTran spokesman to arbitrator.

"We agree." ......SWA spokesman
"We agree." ......SWAPA spokesman

"We want relative seniority and the extra 2 million because we are pretty and we are ALPA." ......ALPA spokesman

The arbitrators will make an informed decision based on the input of the 4 parties. 3 of those parties will be on the same page. One will be on the Moon.

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

OYS you do know what the Frontier pilots position was when they Arbitrated with Republic.! Not that different from SWAPA's postion with them. How is it going with Frontier now?

 

[slaquer5]

I just want them to get a fair deal, and after watching the Frontier offer, I don't know if SWAPA can do it. Arbitration is fair for everyone, unless you are scared of an outcome, one that you planned NOT to be fair. And, you obviously have never been to ATL. Delta owns 70% of the World's busiest airport. And we can't wait to see you TRY to increase the productivity of your gates at the World's busiest airport. Good luck with that.


OYS

Last time i heard that we just started service to BWI. That is what ever USair employee would say to me.

PS Do you think DAL mgt. is a stupid as you say ALPA is ? I wonder if ALPA is gunning for you now to not make it off probation to set an example. Good Luck