SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[On Your Six]

I can't wait to hear you ask for one, and a short approach at BUR speeds. Don't forget to ask for the inboard runway too. You will hear laughter. Your efficiencies just went out the window with a second fleet type and higher wages for the Airtran employee group as a whole. Next, take away first class, and you lose yet another revenue stream. A problem you will encounter is the ramp space around your half terminal. Other airlines occupy the rest of the gates, and RJs are also mainly parked in C and D terminals. You can't just push and get onto a taxiway, you will wait. It will be fun watching you adjust. Yes, you will. And, you may see me for a second as you look up and I taxi by. I will be the one headed overseas, leaving you to fly to Hobby.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Now that was funny!


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

So I guess you don't have the data?

Gup

Southwest today got to look at some of Airtran's data for the first time. An article in Yahoo, can't paste it for some reason, says Southwest will KEEP the Airtran baggage fees and first class FOR NOW. Why not just dump the extra fees now, like the rest of Southwest? Your debt rating took a hit today (down to BBB-?), and your stock went down too. Looks like you inherrited an expensive deal, and keeping the extra fees and first class will help pay for it all temporarily. Even GK said in the article that the fees will eventually go away, and that means less revenue intake. Go look it up, to find that data you are looking for. GK himself just got it today it seems, and it appears he isn't that happy if he is keeping the extra fee structure.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Flying to Hobby pays more than Paris.

Enjoy,
Gup

Does a first year WN pilot pay more per hour than a 12 year DL guy? Where does that line cross? 5 or 6 years? Per hour, Hobby may pay more than CDG depending on longevity at the company, but it looks like there might be some similarities. Both you and GL get to sleep on your flights. Lee in his rest seat, you in your right seat after 6 legs. You also get to eat in the plane. You, your pretzels and peanuts, Lee, his ice cream sundae. You get to stay over in Houston at a hotel (if not based there), probably a Marriot with a downtown bar nearby and a mechanical bull you will try because you have already lost all feelings in your neather regions, Lee, he gets to stay near the Eiffel Tower (from what I am told), and gets to eat great food. Your trips may sound productive, but after awhile it must get really boring. Do you still get that 1-2-3 rule, or did it go away? I am flying domestic stuff myself on the 320, but I know that eventually I will get to fly to Europe and Asia. You might get Mexico City some day.

Enjoy!


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Just curious Gup, what made you buy the type and go to WN before they "made real money"?

He got shot down at UAL, DL, AA, and even USAir. Southwest Captains were leaving for UAL before 9-11. I had a couple in my newhire class at UAL in 2000.


OYS

 

[SWA/FO]

OY6.... give it up. Go "get some" or something. I mean 4-5 posts in a row? Really, gather your thoughts and type.

I've been on this message board 12 years and you have more posts then me! :cartman:

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

On Your Six, are high when post on this forumn? Some of the information you post makes no sense at all! Please do yourself a favor and GET A LIFE! You are a pitiful little man.

 

[On Your Six]

OY6.... give it up. Go "get some" or something. I mean 4-5 posts in a row? Really, gather your thoughts and type.

I like answering everyone. Do you want me to put it all on one post? You can't really do that. And your wife already gave me some today. It was ok.


OYS

 

[slaquer5]

On Your Six, are high when post on this forumn? Some of the information you post makes no sense at all! Please do yourself a favor and GET A LIFE! You are a pitiful little man.

+1

Very sad.

 

[On Your Six]

On Your Six, are high when post on this forumn? Some of the information you post makes no sense at all! Please do yourself a favor and GET A LIFE! You are a pitiful little man.

Actually I am 6'2", and I weigh 200lbs. It's hard to understand what you wrote to me, I think you actually are the one who is high. Can you please post what "makes no sense at all"? I don't think you can.

And I think you actually need to get something yourself, a CLUE.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

+1

Very sad.

Can you understand what Tweet wrote? Very drunk. -1.


OYS

 

[GuppyWN]

Just curious Gup, what made you buy the type and go to WN before they "made real money"?

Two words - job security. Plus the 4 year upgrade (that didn't happen) and being relatively senior for the vast majority of my career. I try to laugh, enjoy my work and those that work with me. In totality I thought it was a better long term fit than the other TWO offers I was lucky enough to have - Mother and AA.

The upgrade took longer, the retirements have stalled out but the money is 50% more than the day I got hired. So far I'm both winning and losing my own bet. I'll let you know in another 20 if I did alright.

Gup

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Got turned down elsewhere.....

Just curious Gup, what made you buy the type and go to WN before they "made real money"?

 

[On Your Six]

Two words - job security. Plus the 4 year upgrade (that didn't happen) and being relatively senior for the vast majority of my career. I try to laugh, enjoy my work and those that work with me. In totality I thought it was a better long term fit than the other TWO offers I was lucky enough to have - Mother and AA.

The upgrade took longer, the retirements have stalled out but the money is 50% more than the day I got hired. So far I'm both winning and losing my own bet. I'll let you know in another 20 if I did alright.

Gup

Mother and AA? Are you a girl? Or are you a guy who wanted to be a girl and have a kid that way? Gross. No wonder you are OAK based.


OYS

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Two words - job security. Plus the 4 year upgrade (that didn't happen) and being relatively senior for the vast majority of my career. I try to laugh, enjoy my work and those that work with me. In totality I thought it was a better long term fit than the other TWO offers I was lucky enough to have - Mother and AA.

The upgrade took longer, the retirements have stalled out but the money is 50% more than the day I got hired. So far I'm both winning and losing my own bet. I'll let you know in another 20 if I did alright.

Gup

Fair enough. Probably gives you a little better perspective than most of the less fortunate amongst both groups that came to either airline since then with those same hopes and are now concerned.

 

[ivauir]

Got turned down elsewhere.....

Ridiculous.

Many of us hired before 9-11 had choices and choose SWA for the job security and future prospects.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

If you wanted job security and pay you would have focused on FDX and UPS(for that matter you should go there now). Southwest has had the luxury of good management(you are only one Carty,Steenland,Tilton,Wolf away), plus some luck (fuel hedges) Pre 9/11 if you wanted all of the above plus a great pension, benefits, and contract it would of been with one of the big 4. The vibe some of y'all give off reminds me of UAL in 2000. On top of the world and invincable. Unlike GL and OYS I am happy for y'all and hope you can maintain and improve on your current contract. Besides having family and friends working there it can only help us in what is going to be a battle for contract restoration.

Ridiculous.

Many of us hired before 9-11 had choices and choose SWA for the job security and future prospects.

 

[jonjuan]

ridiculous.

Many of us hired before 9-11 had choices and choose swa for the job security and future prospects.

airtran, cal, ual, dal, amr, nejets dudes all can say the same thing.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

If you wanted job security and pay you would have focused on FDX and UPS(for that matter you should go there now). Southwest has had the luxury of good management(you are only one Carty,Steenland,Tilton,Wolf away), plus some luck (fuel hedges) Pre 9/11 if you wanted all of the above plus a great pension, benefits, and contract it would of been with one of the big 4. The vibe some of y'all give off reminds me of UAL in 2000. On top of the world and invincable. Unlike GL and OYS I am happy for y'all and hope you can maintain and improve on your current contract. Besides having family and friends working there it can only help us in what is going to be a battle for contract restoration.

UPS? Job security? They reported a billion in profits last year and STILL FURLOUGHED!!

 

[SKC]

...says Southwest will KEEP the Airtran baggage fees and first class FOR NOW. .

There has never been a plan to get rid of business class, bag fees, the name or the livery prior to them actually operating on the SWA certificate. Until then, they are still Air Tran.

When the aircraft begin the move to the SWA cert, then they will be painted and reconfigured to a SWA aircraft.

Until the time the last 717 (or intl 737) makes the jump, you'll likely have the normal Air Tran product that you have today.

 

[jonjuan]

UPS? Job security? They reported a billion in profits last year and STILL FURLOUGHED!!

Hundreds of people left majors and the military for UPS between 2003-2008 BECAUSE of the "stability and job security." Very similar to the same group leaving for swa up to 2000. Yes, dude-swa's "job security" only came to fruition because of Scott Topping and Gary Kelly's decision to fuel hedge. Something which was completely unknown to those who "were looking for job stability."
This is what the arbitrator will be looking at when deciding the sli. "How much did you really know about the future of the airline and its stability, especially when AAI was looking at 4 year upgrades mid-2000s??"

 

[JumpJetter]

so swa survived ONLY because of fuel hedging....huh? who knew?

 

[PapaWoody]

Just curious Gup, what made you buy the type and go to WN before they "made real money"?

Gup already answered, but I'll answer for myself. In two words, job security. I was hired pre-911 when WN was making less than the legacies. When I got the call that I was hired, I stopped filling out the United app, cancelled my upcoming Northwest interview, but held on to my American interview til after I started class at Southwest. The second day of class, I called American and cancelled my interview in 2 weeks, handed my cell phone to a classmate, who proceeded to do the same.

Now you might think I was lucky because of 911, and I'll admit luck does play a part in anyone's airline career, but the ravaging of the industry and the downward slide that all the other airlines experienced was on the way, with or without the 911 attacks. That's just the cyclical nature of the industry, and more specifically the industry as it refers to the way the legacies run their business plans (hire big when times are good, furlough big when times are bad). The history of Southwest, imo, showed that they had always planned in the good times to be ready for the bad times. And in my potential 27 yr. career, I was willing to make a little less to not have to worry about selling used cars periodically on furlough. Turns out with our 2002 extension I got my cake and got to eat it too. No, I don't get to go to Paris on the job (at least not yet), but considering over the last ten years I've probably made 500k-1m more than my contemporaries at Delta/NW/AA/UAL etc, I can afford to take my family to Paris anytime I want.

I'm not trying to brag about my career; again, all airline success stories involve luck and timing. But I am letting the troll known as OYS that, in actuality, us poor Texas 2-step Southwest guys are the ones that are "duh, winning". Obviously, a fact that he knows and it galls him into spewing bitter drivel in a constant manner on this forum. Please keep it up, buddy, green really looks good on you.

Fraternally,
PapaWoody

 

[ASADFW7]

Nice post papawoody

 

[SWA/FO]

Southwest Captains were leaving for UAL before 9-11. I had a couple in my newhire class at UAL in 2000.

If true, which I doubt...... BIG MISTAKE!

 

[GuppyWN]

If true, which I doubt...... BIG MISTAKE!

It's true. You could make shuttle captain at UAL in 18 months before the fall. Or bunkie in a 777 in under a year.

Gup

 

[elcid]

Airtran is a wholly owned subsidiary of Southwest. Actually, Guadalupe Holdings is, to be technically correct. As such it can have it's own fees, 1st class, paint jobs, seniority lists, etc. indefinitely. Just like other airlines out there that are wholly owned subsidiaries of larger holding companies. I wouldn't read too much into what that means about SWA's ability or inability to make money, whether or not they have buyers remorse, etc. Nothing to see here.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Hundreds of people left majors and the military for UPS between 2003-2008 BECAUSE of the "stability and job security." Very similar to the same group leaving for swa up to 2000. Yes, dude-swa's "job security" only came to fruition because of Scott Topping and Gary Kelly's decision to fuel hedge. Something which was completely unknown to those who "were looking for job stability."
This is what the arbitrator will be looking at when deciding the sli. "How much did you really know about the future of the airline and its stability, especially when AAI was looking at 4 year upgrades mid-2000s??"

I wasn't talking to you but I guess I'll reply to your speculation on what the arbitrators might look at. They might look a the fact that while your upgrade then was estimated at four years and ours was five, your upgrade put you financially equal to about a 4 year SWA FO, and our upgrade put us over 50% above your most senior captain. Something else that might be considered is the fact that SWA is a place where pilots have aspired to work, even pre 911 with sub-standard rates. There is not one pilot on the AAI list who is there because that is where they always wanted to work. Couple that with the fact that SWA had hundreds of apps on file from AAI pilots in the hiring years prior to the transaction, and I feel pretty good about the picture that might be painted.

That being said, a negotiated solution is best for all.

 

[RLAblows]

I wasn't talking to you but I guess I'll reply to your speculation on what the arbitrators might look at. They might look a the fact that while your upgrade then was estimated at four years and ours was five, your upgrade put you financially equal to about a 4 year SWA FO, and our upgrade put us over 50% above your most senior captain. Something else that might be considered is the fact that SWA is a place where pilots have aspired to work, even pre 911 with sub-standard rates. There is not one pilot on the AAI list who is there because that is where they always wanted to work. Couple that with the fact that SWA had hundreds of apps on file from AAI pilots in the hiring years prior to the transaction, and I feel pretty good about the picture that might be painted.

That being said, a negotiated solution is best for all.

Very true Hose, but how many upgrades was SWA putting through prior to the Sept 27 announcement? Also, how many pilots did you hire between 2009 and the September announcement? AirTran was doing both, and now we are short in some areas. Because of the announcement we ceased upgrades and hiring. Although, I believe there has been some 717 CA upgrades run recently, but we are still short.

 

[Ty Webb]

blah, blah, blah . . . .

Dude, give it a rest already. For every argument you make, there is a counter-argument that is equally cogent. After 60 pages, it has all been said.

 

[madjack]

Oh boy, talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth...many Trannys on this forum were begging to be bought and relieved of their management and contract, but now that it has happened are shopping for seniority, while enjoying a windfall in QOL/benefits and job security...amazing