SWA/Airtran Process Agreement??

[ASADFW7]

We are one day closer to openers. Good luck

 

[jball2]

PHL is very successful. That is the problem with looking through your Delta glasses. Delta has always gone after market share, SWA has gone after profit. Market share doesn't mean squat if it is not profitable. We make money in PHL!

 

[redflyer65]

PHL is very successful. That is the problem with looking through your Delta glasses. Delta has always gone after market share, SWA has gone after profit. Market share doesn't mean squat if it is not profitable. We make money in PHL!

Exactly. And it's hard to do that when you're attempting to maintain NINE fleet types as well.

 

[Whataburger]

Ummmm, you can go to OAG online and take a look. Probably a heck of a lot. Then throw in widebodies too. Wow. You will be impressed. But, keep a distance, you don't want to roll over. Have fun petting your unicorn.


Bye Bye---General Lee

You have 383 narrow bodies.

I bet you your screen name against mine that you will have 10% less by May 1, 2014? Take me up on it?

BTW,
Hourly, your 12 year 757 FO's make the same as our 5 yr FO's. AND, your gurantee is 65? Holy crap!

 

[General Lee]

PHL is very successful. That is the problem with looking through your Delta glasses. Delta has always gone after market share, SWA has gone after profit. Market share doesn't mean squat if it is not profitable. We make money in PHL!

You probably make money in AMA, MAF, and LBB too, since not many others fly in there. That still doesn't make it a hub in PHL. What I am talking about is the INITIAL reaction when you went in there, about how you were going to be a hub killer to USAir. That hasn't materialized, at all. You say the same thing about ATL, and that is my point. Some hubs have incumbants that are TOO huge for you, even if you walk in with 30 gates and new, happier employees that are going to get 100% raises. DL has been dealing with Airtran for years, and their low fares. DL knows about SWA, since they have dealt with them in SLC, and other places. SWA is not a unknown entity. The key is that you are going into ATL having to double the current wages of everyone there, dumping the first class section they used to have, and try to increase turn times at the World's busiest airport. Can you keep costs down, retrain everyone there to think like you do, and manage to squeeze in 100 more flights a day when the place is saturated already? You think you can do that? That is why I bring up PHL. I looked at OAG online and saw that most of your flights out of PHL are to your other larger focus cities (MDW, DEN, LAS, PHX, HOU, MCO/TPA/FLL, BOS (for you Red--even though you just added it and Airtran dropped it)) You don't have a lot of flights to smaller cities around the NE and Upper midwest (like CHM, CLE, DTW etc), which you would have if you had a hub there. You probably don't have the gates to do that, even though they are super new. So, my point AGAIN, is that your big talk about being a hub killer often doesn't come to fruition. DEN has been a success for you, but PHL and most likely ATL will not. You just can't expand at either of those two to make a huge difference. DL owns 70% of ATL, won't give up a gate, and the new INTL terminal is a month for opening.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You have 383 narrow bodies.

I bet you your screen name against mine that you will have 10% less by May 1, 2014? Take me up on it?

BTW,
Hourly, your 12 year 757 FO's make the same as our 5 yr FO's. AND, your gurantee is 65? Holy crap!

How many widebodies? DL does have nine different plane types, and the route planning guy is having a field day, since he can now put the right sized plane on the correct route. DL just announced that they are not parking 6 DC9s early because they still need them on particular routes until next year. They will be replaced by MD90s, and a C-Series potential order has been floating around for a 100 seater. As far as airplanes go, DL is supposed to dump 35 DC9-50s by the end of next year, and get 60 MD90s. So, I don't think your 10% less deal is accurate.

Also, nobody gets 65 hours a month unless they ask for that. There is always open time if you want it. You are probably right about the payscales per hour for the 12th year FO, and 5th year SWA FO. The 12th year DL FO is probably senior enough though to get "green slips", which means double pay on days off. The are very prevalent during the Spring and Summer. One way to do it is to bid low (65 hours), and then have time to pick up greenslips. I live in base, so I get them frequently.

When (not if) Delta does get your payscale (rumor has it Delta already offered it but with some gaps in other areas, which is why it might not happen just yet), what differences will you then bring up? You get to fly more Intra-Texas routes? You get to do more landings per day? With the same contracts, you would be lacking in one HUGE area---VARIETY in flying. Same pay, more legs, more boredom for you. And add to that your certain stagnation when your lists are thrown together. GUP stated you have about 150 scheduled retirements PER YEAR. Add all of those Airtran guys, most of which seem young to me when I see them, and that means very few upgrades per year. Your fleet structure doesn't help matters. You used to only have one fleet type (an actual part of your success---derivative aircraft---buy same spare parts, training, etc), and now you will have two, adding more complexity. We Delta retires someone from the top, many people get upgraded, and that means pay raises for different planes. One 744 Captain retiring means the A330 Capt moves up to 744, the 757/767 Capt moves up to the A330, the 737-800 or A320 Capt moves up to 757/767, all the way down to the DC9. So, one retirement means a heck of a lot. There are over 2000 Captains now between 60 and 65, and most of them are FNWA pilots, which have good pensions. If one guy leaves and moves up 15 people, what would happen with 2000 guys leaving? That is 2000 in the next 5 years, 4000 in the next 10, and that article said 7600 pilots leaving due to age 65 in the next 15 years. Get the point yet? Your paultry 150 a year really doesn't move anyone around Right now one guy leaving moves one FO up, and requires a newhire. Add in 717 pilots, and there is an extra dynamic, but not a big change. Add 2000 widebody pilots, and it's a different story. That is called CONSTANT PAY RAISES. Give us your rates, and it will be FANTASTIC OVER HERE, and it will happen, eventually. Can you dispute any of that Whataburger SHERMAN??? (that's dumb, btw)



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Exactly. And it's hard to do that when you're attempting to maintain NINE fleet types as well.

That's what you get when you fly GLOBALLY. Certain routes can't all be flown on the same type. The 744 is great for long routes, but cannot do ultra long routes, which is more suited for the 777-LR. (744 can't go nonstop to ATL from South Africa) Hawaii flying is great for 767s, but also for 757-300s, that don't have the range for Europe, but can make it to Hawaii full of frequent fliers. 757s are great for South America, but some routes that make money and are "hot and high" airports due to elevation, like Quito and Bogota, are better suited for 737-700s, and DL has 10 of them for those missions. Can you see yet where this is going? A Global Airline needs multiple plane types to fit different missions. Your mission at SWA is to hit as many airports per day as possible, and to jam on as many pax, without first class seats. You are successful at that, and you are dumping the Airtran first class model in the process. That doesn't necessarily fit the DL model. When you finally do go to ATL for the first time, I think you will be amazed at the different types of DL planes. I can't believe now I am seeing DL DC9s, A319s, A330s, and 744s in ATL myself. But, they all have their niches. Did they all contribute to the huge loss? I think Japan and higher oil did, and the usually slower Q1.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tripower455]

Geez, why do you guys insist on feeding the trolls?

 

[Whataburger]

How many widebodies? DL does have nine different plane types, and the route planning guy is having a field day, since he can now put the right sized plane on the correct route. DL just announced that they are not parking 6 DC9s early because they still need them on particular routes until next year. They will be replaced by MD90s, and a C-Series potential order has been floating around for a 100 seater. As far as airplanes go, DL is supposed to dump 35 DC9-50s by the end of next year, and get 60 MD90s. So, I don't think your 10% less deal is accurate.

Also, nobody gets 65 hours a month unless they ask for that. There is always open time if you want it. You are probably right about the payscales per hour for the 12th year FO, and 5th year SWA FO. The 12th year DL FO is probably senior enough though to get "green slips", which means double pay on days off. The are very prevalent during the Spring and Summer. One way to do it is to bid low (65 hours), and then have time to pick up greenslips. I live in base, so I get them frequently.

When (not if) Delta does get your payscale (rumor has it Delta already offered it but with some gaps in other areas, which is why it might not happen just yet), what differences will you then bring up? You get to fly more Intra-Texas routes? You get to do more landings per day? With the same contracts, you would be lacking in one HUGE area---VARIETY in flying. Same pay, more legs, more boredom for you. And add to that your certain stagnation when your lists are thrown together. GUP stated you have about 150 scheduled retirements PER YEAR. Add all of those Airtran guys, most of which seem young to me when I see them, and that means very few upgrades per year. Your fleet structure doesn't help matters. You used to only have one fleet type (an actual part of your success---derivative aircraft---buy same spare parts, training, etc), and now you will have two, adding more complexity. We Delta retires someone from the top, many people get upgraded, and that means pay raises for different planes. One 744 Captain retiring means the A330 Capt moves up to 744, the 757/767 Capt moves up to the A330, the 737-800 or A320 Capt moves up to 757/767, all the way down to the DC9. So, one retirement means a heck of a lot. There are over 2000 Captains now between 60 and 65, and most of them are FNWA pilots, which have good pensions. If one guy leaves and moves up 15 people, what would happen with 2000 guys leaving? That is 2000 in the next 5 years, 4000 in the next 10, and that article said 7600 pilots leaving due to age 65 in the next 15 years. Get the point yet? Your paultry 150 a year really doesn't move anyone around Right now one guy leaving moves one FO up, and requires a newhire. Add in 717 pilots, and there is an extra dynamic, but not a big change. Add 2000 widebody pilots, and it's a different story. That is called CONSTANT PAY RAISES. Give us your rates, and it will be FANTASTIC OVER HERE, and it will happen, eventually. Can you dispute any of that Whataburger SHERMAN??? (that's dumb, btw)



Bye Bye---General Lee

Back it up. 10% reduction or more in narrowbodies, you retire from FI. Less than 10%, I retire. Back it up, Mater-Debator!!!!!

What say you?

Congrats, when someone uptrades into a 747-4, they FINALLY get SWA payrates. Sweet job!!!!

Whataburger Sherman.

 

[redflyer65]

DL does have nine different plane types, and the route planning guy is having a field day, since he can now put the right sized plane on the correct route.

The 12th year DL FO is probably senior enough though to get "green slips", which means double pay on days off.


Bye Bye---General Lee

General, are you serious with this line of reasoning? You sound like the PR piece they put out to the NW and DL shareholders to get this deal done.

Having NINE fleet types is a massive drag on your bottom line. Think of the thousands of parts sitting around, the different sim time, and it goes on and on. I've heard of guys bidding different equipment when the OE was backed up, they were pleased to sit around for month after month and get paid min pay. THAT effects your bottom line dude!

A fifth year FO at Southwest has plenty of opportunity for premium time as well, you don't have to wait around for 12yrs for that here.

RF