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SWA/AAI SLI agreement in principle.

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Daddy said:
You guys should understand that reserve is only 8% of the lines at SWA. It is also a workable moneymaker for many pilots here. There will be those among you who live in ATL that willingly bid reserve to get their trip totals up. It is a valid strategy for our contract. I would not sweat reserve too much....2 hour callout to report and no airport standby...it is not most people's dream, but it is not too bad compared to what you might be thinking it is.
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We will be that 8% so I guess we will have to learn the system.
 
Beech Balls said:
Out of curiosity, how do any of you know what SWA will do with the ATL base?

Nobody's sure, so really, stop speculating.
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You're right, no one knows. But I do know that one of the big reasons Gary wanted AAI to begin with was because of ATL. That is the backdrop of what is going to happen there.
 
Britpilot said:
We will be that 8% so I guess we will have to learn the system.
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You also need to consider those that were hired at both companies after the snapshot date. They will most assuredly be at the bottom of whatever was agreed upon therefore making them more in line for reserve than anyone else.


SLC
:cool:
 
SELFloadingCRGO said:
You also need to consider those that were hired at both companies after the snapshot date. They will most assuredly be at the bottom of whatever was agreed upon therefore making them more in line for reserve than anyone else.


SLC
:cool:
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Yeah, did consider those guys but that only equates to about 300 or so. I'm sure the airline needs more than that many.
 
This is just my opinion...i see a lot of growth coming out of this. I have no idea what is in the agreement but Gary wanted it done for a reason. I think it is very Ironic that boeing has announced a huge increase in production of the 737NG. It is also a well known fact that it can be difficult to get aircraft financing with labor problems at an airline or just uncertain situation. Delta has already started preparing for SWA coming into ATL...increased capacity (a little) adding seats on routes we will be flying and starting a massive ad campaign (when is the last time you saw Delta commercials..now they are everywhere!) it will not be an easy fight with Delta. they have a great product and are somewhat competitive in seat cost. We have a serious fare war and turf war on our hands so we have to grow ATL to survive. Its simple business. With that being said I think there will be a lot of growth in our future. Just my opinion but look at the things happening in the back ground. Welcome aboard guys and gals. I think we will be just fine.
 
ATL should be a lot like PHL or DEN...no real LCC (since airtran will be with us), just a legacy. Both far exceeded expectations. We're all just guessing, but ATL should be extraordinary...I just dont see how it wouldn't be.
 
If there are displacements the SWAPA contract dictates that you will be eligible for a company paid move.
 
I will be the first to say...hand us all our azzes....will cause pain to our rank and file....hopefully it will show the outsiders...investors,brokers, pax etc.... what complete self-absorbed loads we have running our airlines....you guys will have the"troubled teens" at both carriers as you blend but for the rest of you......full speed ahead...Oh yea...do the rest of us non sub-commanders a favor......thump deltas buttt in ATL for us....god speed for the new SWA.....go where no airline has gone before.....
 
Wow, it appears that ALPA may have sold another pilot group down the river. Wonder how many more lawsuits ALPA can afford?
 
maru657 said:
Wow, it appears that ALPA may have sold another pilot group down the river. Wonder how many more lawsuits ALPA can afford?
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Interesting on how many people that claim not to be connected comment on this when no one knows for sure what the deal is. If one side or the other feels they have been "sold down the river" they will vote no. That is assuming it gets past the MEC and BOD. If this deal doesn't pass at any stage we will move on with the process.
 
The reserve lines don't necessarily go to the bottom of the seniority list. I would venture a guess that during a good chunk of the year(not summer) that 50% of the rsv lines are taken out of seniority.
 
Actually ALPA has been very quiet in this entire process.

Hang on, let me rephrase that.

The "ALPA job killing machine" has been quiet. :D
 
maru657 said:
Wow, it appears that ALPA may have sold another pilot group down the river. Wonder how many more lawsuits ALPA can afford?
Click to expand...

As long as the AT F/O's keep their longevity for pay (which they almost certainly will), they "upgrade" to within a few $/hr of AT Capt pay the second they ink this deal. Yes, on paper they lose bidding power, but given that SWA schedules and work rules are quite a bit better than AT's, the QOL is at least as good. Bottom line, the AT F/O's have met the career expectations they had when they hired on at AT.

If an AT Capt keeps his Capt seat, he gets a massive pay raise, in addition to all the other QOL improvements that comes from the SWA CBA. He has EXCEEDED his career expectations.

Sounds like ALPA (well, really GK and MvDV) has gotten (given) the AT guys a pretty sweet deal. Potentially far, FAR better than it could have been (or could still be)

ALPA may not really have much credit to take for the agreement, but I don't see how you can say they sold the AT guys down the river.
 
maru657 said:
Wow, it appears that ALPA may have sold another pilot group down the river. Wonder how many more lawsuits ALPA can afford?
Click to expand...

Not quite my friend. They did sell the TWA pilots down the river, and that is why just last week a jury of 12 found alpo guilty of not representing the TWA pilots fairly.
In this case, at least you can look at the agreement and vote whether you like it or not. Not so much for the TWA pilots. I suggest you get as far away from alpo as quickly as you can. It is possible that alpo members may be paying assessments to alpo for many years to help bailout alpo as they pay damages to the former TWA pilots.
 
Yep, alpo may in fact be paying too many assessments to survive but it was the greed and shortsightedness of various pilot groups that led to the demise of any last faint hope for a national union. The treatment of not just TWA, but Morris air, Reno and others has left this industry with little hope for the future. I don't know why any pilot would even bother to honor a picket line today.
 
maru657 said:
Yep, alpo may in fact be paying too many assessments to survive but it was the greed and shortsightedness of various pilot groups that led to the demise of any last faint hope for a national union. The treatment of not just TWA, but Morris air, Reno and others has left this industry with little hope for the future. I don't know why any pilot would even bother to honor a picket line today.
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I think the majority of Morris Air guys would beg to differ.
 
shagadelic said:
I think the majority of Morris Air guys would beg to differ.
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Maybe in public or within earshot of SW, but not in private. I've talked to some of them and it's almost like two white guys telling a joke about black guys, they always look around first and then vent.
 
Vent...that's a good one! Vent about WHAT? The Morris guys ended up with an awesome deal and the only guys I've been around that harbor bad feelings are dudes that would be mad no matter what. Most Morris guys I've flown with are good dudes and darn happy how it ended up...or a few strange apples that are darn happy how it ended up. Just my experience.

shootr
 
Morris started operations in 1992. They were sold to Southwest Airlines in 1993. Of course they were stapled! And pay protected. And all of them upgraded in 5 years or less. I'm not even sure what the heck you are talking about...are you?
 
shootr said:
Vent...that's a good one! Vent about WHAT? The Morris guys ended up with an awesome deal and the only guys I've been around that harbor bad feelings are dudes that would be mad no matter what. Most Morris guys I've flown with are good dudes and darn happy how it ended up...or a few strange apples that are darn happy how it ended up. Just my experience.

shootr
Click to expand...

And to make their awesome deal even awesomer, most banged out sick during Xmas 1994 as a F U to their perceived injustice of a staple.
 
jonjuan said:
And to make their awesome deal even awesomer, most banged out sick during Xmas 1994 as a F U to their perceived injustice of a staple.
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Let's say that happened en masse- the relevant question is: do you think they are happy and proud of their actions today?
 

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