SWA-AAI Going Rogue

[BoilerUP]

Wow, and here I thought you actually worked for SWA..... AMR has more debt than a millenium realestate investor in LAS.

AMR has more cash on hand and less debt than Delta does.

 

[puddlejumper101]

My perspective as a 7 year SWA F/O.

1. Seat protection or lock for Tranny CA's is unacceptable and would create a caustic work environment.

2. Forget fencing out the 717 also. SWAPA negotiated a maximum 24 month fence in our contract for a reason. We don't want lesser paid pilots running around our system on a fenced out airplane that happens to be the same size as a -500. Hello...can you say B-Scale anyone? In all likelihood, those airplanes will end up deployed on our short haul routes out of TX and West Coast so no way in hades we want it fenced out of our hands permanently.

3. Date of hire...not what I want but realistically a possibility provided the maximum 24 month duration fence applies around your operation. After 24 months, we get into ATL and your aircraft and seats and you get into our system. You get what your seniority holds Southwest and no more...

I think this is where this SLI will end up. I think except for the 10% militant on both sides, most of us expect something like what you said. Airtran pilots expecting to keep the left seat after the fence comes down are dreaming. Also, one pay scale would be awesome, so that way training costs are kept at bay. This is just my opinion, but I bet 80% of us (both at Airtran and SWA) see this coming, wich means no arbitration. the other 20%, well they will be annoyingly militant for a while until the other 80% finally tells them to STFU and get to work. Rumor has it that SWA will have 10,000 pilots by 2015. we shall see.

By the way, DAL/NWA was a different animal than SWA/AT. The only reason that went ok with arbitration was because both companies were very similar in size and longevity.

 

[texman]

Wow, and here I thought you actually worked for SWA..... AMR has more debt than a millenium realestate investor in LAS.

Just playing holmes!lol Trying to find some humor.

 

[CaptAntoineMack]

Very strange? We just went through this, and all of this exact stuff happened prior to our SLI. Guess what? The arbitrators made the decisions, and it was about right down the middle, something you SWA guys can't seem to understand. But, I do think it is comical watching this because of your extreme cockiness, and it will be great to see the final outcome. It won't be what you are expecting, which is DOH, STAPLE, or anything close to that. It is time for you to start embrasing that idea. Have fun.



Bye Bye--General Lee

Again. Very strange. And third grade logic. If it happens to me it will certainly happen to you. Yea.....OK.

 

[amfteamster]

Why are we doing this to each other? I will be simple and frank. I have worked at 6 airlines prior to coming to work at AirTran. I have been furloughed more than most anybody I have ever met. I have applied and been hired at Legacy carriers and I have applied and been denied by LCC's as well, Southwest included.

I came to AirTran a few years ago because it was the best offer I had at the time. It wasn't great but it was a job flying Boeing Jets and getting a steady paycheck, most of the time and so I was pleased to take it. I am still very pleased to have a job today. Lord knows I have been without one many times before so I never look a gift horse in the mouth.

On September 27th my ex-wife called me. I couldn't figure out why she was calling but i answered the phone anyway. I was shocked that she was actually being nice and I asked her what was up? She said nothing I just felt like calling and congratulating you on your lottery win. I had no idea what she was talking about until she told me she had heard on the news that SWA had bought AirTran. I have to say I was exstatic to say the least.

Now, a few months have gone by and I am as excited as I was on day one and I believe most of my coworkers are too however I am begining to get more concerned by the day. Here at AirTran we have a reputation for being militant, over the top, and out right rediculous in our demands. I am concerned that the 8% of our group that are the loudest will ruin this for the rest of us. I have called no less than 100 of my peers and they for the most part feel the same. Dont screw this up for us. We have worked hard, had hard knocks, and finally are catching a huge break for once in our careers.

All but 2 or the guys I have spoken with told me they would take a staple and be happy as a pig in Sh!t. I would have to agree.

I hope you SWA guys on this board will please tell your MEC that we are a reasonable bunch of guys at AirTran for the most part and all we want is a fair chance at a job flying for SWA. Our so called leadership doesn't necessarily speak for the majority. Please don't let our guys do to us what the Frontier union leaders did to their group. We want to come over and join the family and if a staple is what it takes for that to happen so be it. Please don't let ALPA ruin this like ALPA has ruined my career expectations so many times in the past.

Thanks for listening Swapa and before any of you loud AAI types start throwing the darts be honest with yourselfs and admit that I speak for the majority and you speak for yourself.

 

[bladeusa]

All but 2 or the guys I have spoken with told me they would take a staple and be happy as a pig in Sh!t. I would have to agree.

.

good attempt.. care to post your employee number.. at SWA.

 

[amfteamster]

I guess I was wrong. It is 9% that are unreasonable. If you are who I think you are we are not far apart on our list. We are both close to "Face" and "Derby" as 2006 newhires?

I don't understand why you would want to create havoc when there is no need. Smarten up Les. This isn't a game this is our careers on the line.

 

[bladeusa]

Look at his post history.. hmmm maybe i have an old profile on here i need to resurrect and stir the pot with some fake claims.. On second thought, i'm going to just drink a few cold ones and watch MNF. Get the 2 sides to agree where they can.. send the rest to Mediation and let the chips fall where they may and lets move on.

 

[bladeusa]

I have no clue who "Face" is.. but its easy to tell when i started here by looking at my post history as well.. you have to do a lot better than that. -and i'm far from unreasonable.

 

[S3sundowner]

Teamster, finally an aai pilot talking sense. The swa guys/gals are getting seriously vocal about the ranting aai pilots on here. Sincerely hope you are more of the "norm" at aai. The swa guys are looking forward to the opportunities of the combined operation, and want to work with guys like you. Good luck at swa and don't let the "9%ers" ruin this opportunity.

 

[General Lee]

Gen it's all good, this is not two government bail out carriers. Yes I understand your point about arbitration. We can't do anything about it, that's if it does go to arbitration. Yes, after the Acquisition is complete SWA will be carrying alot of AT debt. What people don't understand is the share holders of both sides see this as a opportunity to make a lot of cash. The Rioc will hit 25% which will create explosive growth to 2000-07 levels. What I would be worried about gen is your own turf in ATL, and MSP. Remember the little airline that could in Texas. Well our mgt still feels the need to grow and not be the little guy.

Worry about our turf? You mean like SLC? How much has SWA grown there lately? Not much. And ATL and MSP are restricted with the amount of growth available. AT has had about the same number of gates in ATL for the last 10 years, and even though SWA says it can allow an extra 4 flights a day per gate (from 6 to 10), there will be a lot of normal airport constraints. ATL isn't a place you can just do a classic SWA short approach or the cool MDW circle to land. Nope, it's more like a short approach is less than a 20 mile straight in final. If you get one of those, then it is considered a short approach. And in MSP you are located in the Hubert Humphrey LCC terminal on the South side of the field. Are there a lot more gates available there? Maybe if you buy Sun Country you can get more gates, but that merger would involve another SLI, and I am sure all of those guys have better DOH than 80% of the SWA pilots. You know what they would be WISHING for.......

So, don't expect too much out of your new ATL stuff or additional MSP movements, I don't think we will. Our CEO has already stated that he isn't particularly worried at all. AT giving up their business class product will help us out in ATL, giving us more lucrative corporate contracts anyway.

And, I like the civility of your post. I no doubt like to throw in a dig here and there, but overall I am just stating that this fighting on FI is UNNECESSARY about SLI stuff. There is nothing any of you can do about it. An arbitrator will review everything, and then decide, as a NEUTRAL. I know you guys think you have this and this, and AT doesn't bring this or that, but an Arbitrator will review the facts and then decide on what is MOST FAIR. That is what everyone should want anyway. Regardless, you will have a stronger company in the end, and not even close to "little airline that could" in Texas. I don't think anyone thinks that anymore. Have a good one.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Lear70]

Union says you can't discuss SLI! Moderator from AAI will shut down this thread in two minutes.

I'm going rogue!

I stopped moderating AAI/SWA threads several days ago. Didn't you get the memo?

The arbitrator(s) will make that decision. I hope everyone on this thread copies what is written, and sends it to the lawyers, since they will be arguing it with the neutrals.

I've mentioned a couple times that several of our Merger Committee members read these threads (and one has responded once or twice). Last week he got on the private message board and told people to STFU over here, that he was certainly copying things "alleged" SWA pilots were saying on here for use in SLI discussions and was certain that his counterparts on SWAPA's MC were doing the same.

Your choice whether to listen to him or not.

good attempt.. care to post your employee number.. at SWA.

AMFTeamster works at AirTran, hired pretty close to the same time I was and similar backgrounds.

As far as "explosive growth", I'm flying with our Scheduling Chair this trip and we were discussing staffing, whereby some people were thinking we were overstaffed compared to how SWA flies. Not so. We are dramatically understaffed considering how many BLOCK HOURS SWA operates on a per-airframe basis (which is how an airline figures out required staffing).

Take the block hours SWA flies their aircraft and apply it to ours, and you INSTANTLY have an increase of 13,600 block hours per month (A little over 2 extra hours per day per aircraft SWA flies their planes more than ours). Assuming an average 75 block hour month for a pilot, and that's an additional 180 or so pilots needed right off the bat.

Then you add in the rumors from SWA's training department saying they want to grow to 10,000 pilots by 2015 (4 years away) means 2,200 new-hires in the next 4 years, plus 200 retirements per year on average = 800 MORE pilots, for a grand total of almost 3,200 pilots in 4 years. A little under 800 per year, about the max Southwest can hire and train.

In other words, no matter how it shakes out, if growth is ANYTHING like planned, NO ONE is going to be in a bad position in a few years.

Looking forward to buying the first round, Happy New Year everyone...

 

[Ty Webb]

AMF, you complain about your Union and then go around them and try to negotiate in public . . . Are you kidding me?

You are a ******************************bag of the highest magnitude. I doubt the SWA pilot group will appreciate your efforts anymore than we do. No one likes a groveling, bootlicker. During the next conflict, you'll be selling your fellow pilots out again, just to someone else.

 

[amfteamster]

You are a ******************************bag of the highest magnitude

I understand you are willing to fight for relative seniority because you have nothing to lose. If it doesn't work out you will just stay out on medical. Where does that leave me and the rest of the somewhat junior F/O's? All we want is a rewarding career and a happy place to spend the rest of our working lives. Why are you so bent on getting it your way be damned anyone else? You may not like my tact and approach but I speak for the majority and you obviously speak for you. Don't ruin this for me and my family. It isn't about just you.

 

[scoreboardII]

Nice plan, 10,000 pilots.

Right up until oil hits $100 plus per barrel.

Sorry, my "realism machine" just restarted.