SWA/AAI future?

[Sacha]

If the Euro falls apart....which it will....look out. We all may be looking at stagnation as the good ol days.

 

[GuppyWN]

A simple mirror will be sufficient to see where the problem lies if there are attitude problems.

The dust will not settle for awhile but simply brushing it off and doing what both airlines have done before will be the order of the day.

I agree. I find that if I just ignore problems they always either go away or just fix themselves.

Gup

 

[Kalifornia]

Best advice I've heard is don't bid Chicago trips thinking it's party land, one guy told me the last trip out of there every FA was gay, grannie, or grande

 

[737 Driver]

Best advice I've heard is don't bid Chicago trips thinking it's party land, one guy told me the last trip out of there every FA was gay, grannie, or grande

And out of ATL they will have Ghetto.
That's a 4G airline right there!

 

[ASADFW7]

Ya'all the other day in Midway we were following a AAI B737 31C circle 22L, they flew a pattern that took them over downtown and then when they landed on 22L they turned right onto the taxiway. The tower controller said your other left. There they sat for at least 15 minutes waiting to cross back towards the terminal. If you have flown into Midway turning right off 22L does not allow you to taxi towards the gate without crossing the active runway once again.

The point is the future of SWA will be a lot of new things for all involved. There will be a few little mistakes like this one where we will roll our eyes and say that crew is inexperienced. Both sides will screw up and you know what, it happened before this deal and it will happen after. If the worse thing that happens is someone turns the wrong way off the runway we will all be okay.

 

[General Lee]

Ya'all the other day in Midway we were following a AAI B737 31C circle 22L, they flew a pattern that took them over downtown and then when they landed on 22L they turned right onto the taxiway. The tower controller said your other left. There they sat for at least 15 minutes waiting to cross back towards the terminal. If you have flown into Midway turning right off 22L does not allow you to taxi towards the gate without crossing the active runway once again.

The point is the future of SWA will be a lot of new things for all involved. There will be a few little mistakes like this one where we will roll our eyes and say that crew is inexperienced. Both sides will screw up and you know what, it happened before this deal and it will happen after. If the worse thing that happens is someone turns the wrong way off the runway we will all be okay.

Thanks Chuck Yeager! The Airtran guys will say the same thing about you as you overfly the White House on your first trip "down the river" at DCA. Roll your eyes.....



Bye Bye----General Lee

 

[Wesb737fo]

Why is Yeager the ICAO standard for the aviation metaphor? I would think Sean Tucker or Bob Hoover would be better.

 

[Sacha]

Thanks Chuck Yeager! The Airtran guys will say the same thing about you as you overfly the White House on your first trip "down the river" at DCA. Roll your eyes.....



Bye Bye----General Lee

Doesn't matter..... The White House has been empty going on 3 years now.

Yeah the river visual is such a complex approach.....

Besides, us corn dogs have been hand flying our 200's 6 legs a day, 5 days a week for twenty years now. With some coaching from the Delta Professionals, we might get the hang of it.

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

You just added over 130 airframes....yet you call that zero growth? The SLI is very far from being equitable, but it is what it is. The really humourous thing is SWAPA using the 717 payrates as a bargaining chip. A sizable amount of the available upgrades will be on that airplane, albeit at the lower rate. Ye reap what ye sow.

It is zero growth because they come with 1700 pissed off pilots which is about 300 more than are required. As stated all new deliveries will just replace other airframes. Zero growth and overstaffed. I foresee min pay lines for a LONG time to come. Should just add to the fun.

 

[Quiet Flight]

I'll make this easy. My words are the blue ones. :beer:

My question is for you super smart pilots that can see the future That's me!: How is this going to play out?

1. Will a 717 ever be in SWA colors? No.
Will they be dumped prior to us coming over to SWA. Probably.
Example they dump one bring those pilots for training and pick up a 737 to put them in? Not a 1 for 1 transition. Depends on who bids what.

2. If the 717 is dumped before it gets SWA paint is there a furlough on AAI side? Maybe a short term one. Unless those 717 pilots leave with those planes.

3. How long will it take for AAI to become SWA completely? I was looking at 30 months from the first offer... Does that still sound correct? 60-72 months is becoming more realistic every day. If ever.

4. Does SWA have a 737 ground school for non-typed pilots? No. But I guess there will be a "long course" now.
Will 717 guys need to get a type between here and there. No.

5. What will 717 pay be? If they do go to your side of the fence... I'm guessing SWAPA will negotiate a rate. Current ALPA book rate. It will be an ALPA plane for a long time...

I'm also guessing SWAPA pilots will want those Capt. seats etc. Doubt SWA pilots will want them. They can just upgrade in the 737's that are replacing the 717's as they are sold off/parked.

6. Will I ever see a SWA paycheck before 2013? Are you on the 737? If not, then no.

Anything else I can help you with?

 

[Andy]

It is zero growth because they come with 1700 pissed off pilots which is about 300 more than are required. As stated all new deliveries will just replace other airframes. Zero growth and overstaffed. I foresee min pay lines for a LONG time to come. Should just add to the fun.

I don't know how many of the 1700 pilots will be pissed off but I agree with your overstaffing prediction along with a lot of min pay lines. That's why I've found the AAI QOL argument to have very little credence in this merger/acquisition.
Everyone will have more time off which theoretically means higher QOL. The good news is that you'll get more time at home with family. The bad news for the SWA pilots is that they'll see less take home pay - the AAI pilots will see a pay increase that should more than offset a reduction in the number of hours worked.

Once retirements start occurring on a regular basis, most of the retirements will be from the SWA side so that AAI pilots will see their relative seniority increase much more than they would have seen if they had been a standalone carrier.

The only way I see this changing is if Southwest is able to significantly expand block hours. I think they're near the near term market saturation point so I don't see that as likely but I've been wrong plenty of times in the past.

 

[Old Crow]

I'll have to say that I am not impressed with the SWA reverse in attitude through this process. If I recall, the first Atlanta round up where drinks and food were provided, a nice speech was made relative to how well we were all going to work together and how Swapa viewed everyone of the AT pilots as part of the team. Well, negotiation or not, you guys revealed your true spirit. Words and attitudes have been thrown around that can only be described as childish and disrespectful.
I am looking forward to being a Southwest Pilot, but you guys now look like the "average" pilot to the rest of the industry. You've chosen a "me first" attitude no different than the guys at USair. I hope as we transition, SWA can still show how great of a company you really are. As I said all along, Airtran is not going to be the one to ruin the Southwest Culture, you would ruin it yourselves.
I have several buds that fly for SW, they all agree...

 

[Dan Roman]

I'll have to say that I am not impressed with the SWA reverse in attitude through this process. If I recall, the first Atlanta round up where drinks and food were provided, a nice speech was made relative to how well we were all going to work together and how Swapa viewed everyone of the AT pilots as part of the team. Well, negotiation or not, you guys revealed your true spirit. Words and attitudes have been thrown around that can only be described as childish and disrespectful.
I am looking forward to being a Southwest Pilot, but you guys now look like the "average" pilot to the rest of the industry. You've chosen a "me first" attitude no different than the guys at USair. I hope as we transition, SWA can still show how great of a company you really are. As I said all along, Airtran is not going to be the one to ruin the Southwest Culture, you would ruin it yourselves.
I have several buds that fly for SW, they all agree...

When all this started I actually thought SWAPA was going to raise the how to merge bar a little. I thought this merger would be interesting to watch from the sidelines. It has steadily gone downhill here on F I and if that is any indication, SWA has failed miserably at meeting "Gary's" comment about wanting everyone to come out of this merger proud of the way it was handled. Mergers are a very difficult and emotional deal for anyone involved in one. You SWA folks on here have acted with way less class and maturity than the DAL/NWA/UAL/CO folks have who have been faced with the same thing.

 

[Dan Roman]

....but you've still got the USAPA guys beat!!

 

[Tanker Clown]

Dan, who is Air Tran "merging" with? I thought you guys got bought. Merge is something equals do. Air Tran merges with say Republic. Southwest buys Air Tran.

Be happy if you get acquired by them. How many of you guys (the ones who met the minimums to apply) interviewed and were turned down or just hoping for a SWA interview? How many SWA guys were chomping at the bit to go to Air Tran? I'm just wondering if you guys have screwed this up too much to get SWA jobs.

 

[carl p]

The economy won't recover. There will be zero growth for a very long time. 1700 really pissed off AAI pilots that were expecting DOH+ several years will come on board and will do their best to make this a miserable a place to work. The AAI pilots assumed they would go to a venue that is as friendly to them as a custody hearing is to a woman in most states. If that doesn't happen they will be pissed and will take it out on EVERYONE and EVERYTHING. Should be lots of fun.


I was hopeful that this would be a positive thing. I was hopeful we could find a solution that everyone could live with. Now I'm convinced it'll just suck.

Your way off, I have yet to fly with someone who will bring a bad attitude over. Things did not go the way we planned, and truthfully we've made our share of blunders but I'm confident that our people will continue to work hard and contribute to the company's success. The BMT threatened to fire 169 pilots on probation to avoid furloughing retired training instructors. We pilots were eventually furloughed and upon returning to work we remained professional and courteous. I'm sure there will be some on both sides who act like babies, but at the end of the day we'll come together for the good of SWA.

IMO, if SWAPA worked towards getting the 717 pay/longevity near parity with the 737 it would be a great step in bringing us together. The SLI has apparently been decided by SWA so if it's passed why not start the healing with an act of goodwill between unions? Each side would have the next 30 months or so until complete integration to build upon that. Our employee group could be an example for the others.

 

[General Lee]

Doesn't matter..... The White House has been empty going on 3 years now.

Yeah the river visual is such a complex approach.....

Besides, us corn dogs have been hand flying our 200's 6 legs a day, 5 days a week for twenty years now. With some coaching from the Delta Professionals, we might get the hang of it.

Maybe you will, BIG maybe. The problem is most Corndog approaches look a lot like that river visual, but on a normal straight in approach! FANTASTIC FLYING! Can you say "Stablized Approach???" "Corndogs" really is a great nickname for your group. When you mostly fly intra-Texas stuff like Suck-up, those Feds are REALLY going to have to watch those Corndogs. And that's right, Suck-up used to fly Eastern DC-6s into DCA back in the 60s.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Dan, who is Air Tran "merging" with? I thought you guys got bought. Merge is something equals do. Air Tran merges with say Republic. Southwest buys Air Tran.

Be happy if you get acquired by them. How many of you guys (the ones who met the minimums to apply) interviewed and were turned down or just hoping for a SWA interview? How many SWA guys were chomping at the bit to go to Air Tran? I'm just wondering if you guys have screwed this up too much to get SWA jobs.

Tanky,

The arbitrators will probably decide how to MERGE that seniority list, and it won't be a staple job. If it happens, I think the SWA guys should bring up all of your arguments to the arbitrator panel, and see how they react. I don't think they would agree with your argument.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tanker Clown]

Your way off, I have yet to fly with someone who will bring a bad attitude over. Things did not go the way we planned, and truthfully we've made our share of blunders but I'm confident that our people will continue to work hard and contribute to the company's success. The BMT threatened to fire 169 pilots on probation to avoid furloughing retired training instructors. We pilots were eventually furloughed and upon returning to work we remained professional and courteous. I'm sure there will be some on both sides who act like babies, but at the end of the day we'll come together for the good of SWA.

IMO, if SWAPA worked towards getting the 717 pay/longevity near parity with the 737 it would be a great step in bringing us together. The SLI has apparently been decided by SWA so if it's passed why not start the healing with an act of goodwill between unions? Each side would have the next 30 months or so until complete integration to build upon that. Our employee group could be an example for the others.

Didn't they already get you the pay in the deal you guys turned down. Woops! Maybe they'll give you a mulligan.

Gerbil, it looks like you won't get your arby wish. Looks like ValuJet takes the deal or they go to an arbitration that will never be implemented and 1700 pilots will beg for an interview.

 

[Andy]

Your way off, I have yet to fly with someone who will bring a bad attitude over. Things did not go the way we planned, and truthfully we've made our share of blunders but I'm confident that our people will continue to work hard and contribute to the company's success. The BMT threatened to fire 169 pilots on probation to avoid furloughing retired training instructors. We pilots were eventually furloughed and upon returning to work we remained professional and courteous. I'm sure there will be some on both sides who act like babies, but at the end of the day we'll come together for the good of SWA.

Good post. Most of us from the 2172 who returned to UAL were extremely ticked off. As far as I know, very few of us ever acted unprofessionally.
It was a bit of a challenge for me at times.
Flying with a 59YO 767 cap who told me how great age 65 was going to be for me was a very tough pill to swallow. I just bit my tongue, in spite of being off of probation. I laughed internally when the dirtbag whipped out his 'love me' album and showed me all of his toys (boat, plane, house) including a new 30-something wife (2d or 3d; can't remember) and 2YO kid. I hope his wife takes him for everything in another couple of years - revenge is a dish best served cold.
I saw a lot of 'love me' albums while flying the 75/76 in 2008 - both captain and FOs. Not one asked me how it was during my 5+ years of furlough. As far as I know, I always behaved professionally while my blood boiled.

I'm tempted to make up a 'I got screwed' photo album for when I go back - sleeping in cardboard boxes and storage units; begging on the side of the highway. Just to show anyone who wants to exchange their 'love me' photos. ... I've slept in storage units while furloughed; everything else would be an exaggeration.