SWA/AAI and the flight deck jumpseat

[GuppyWN]

You have to think outside the box and look at the situation from the outside in. You guys are either in denial about the company or trying to use smoke and mirrors to blind us to the inevitable situation SWA will be facing. This merger is a sign of it. Gary Kelly in 08 said things were substainable till 2010.

I worry about more furloughs than upgrades right now. I think you guys are too. This merger might help prevent that, and the first downturn at SWA in a long time if ever there was one (well done btw. You guys have been awsome). You know how to turn a airplane and utilization is great at SWA, but you make 30% more than everyone else. Either they come up or you/we come down. Other airlines have wised up too. I am not a fortune teller, but I know what is worth something and what is worth less. However, time will always tell.

I have been right about a lot of things with this country and the economy over the last decade. Lets just say I am doing ok financially by my own definition, but things are going to get worst in this country before they get better... if they ever do.

I wake up every day and thank God that Airtran is being "merged" with Southwest so that you guys can save us from our certain demise.

Gup

 

[Kharma Police]

I wake up every day and thank God that Airtran is being "merged" with Southwest so that you guys can save us from our certain demise.

Gup

Don't thank Gawd, thank "our" boss, Gary Kelly.

 

[SWA/FO]

Nice picture of you on the ATN ALPA msg. board! You got a purdy mouth!

Good. My actual mouth or whats coming out of it. Its a simple message: get on the list, tell all your friends.

 

[Kharma Police]

Good. My actual mouth or whats coming out of it. Its a simple message: get on the list, tell all your friends.

Will do!

p.s. you might want to drop a few pounds.

 

[PCL_128]

You don't see the arrogance of that statement?

Seriously? Coming from you, that's just funny. The amount of arrogance demonstrated by the SWA pilots on this board has been absolutely unbelievable. Even the arrogance of the USAirways pilots towards the AWA pilots pre-Nic didn't reach these levels.

And no, there was no arrogance in my statement. It is the same thing that your CEO has been saying for months. He is the one who has been saying that SWA needs AirTran to grow. The quotes are a matter of public record. I know you like to pretend that they don't exist, but they do. This merger is good for you, whether you want to admit it or not. Is it also good for us? Of course! I don't dispute that. I'm just tired of you pretending that this merger is horrible for you and great for us. It's good for all of us.

I think you PCL have always aggressively looked for shortcuts.....

You don't know me, so everything you say from this point forward is nothing more than conjecture. But it's very telling that when someone challenges your assertions that we should just take whatever you want to give us, that you lash out and resort to personal attacks. Very telling.

 

[SWA/FO]

p.s. you might want to drop a few pounds.

Nice, I said to say nice comments about "Southwest" not me!

 

[dicko]

Nice, I said to say nice comments about "Southwest" not me!

It's getting ugly. They're calling you "Captain Muffin Top". I've asked them to stop but they're merciless.

It's a very body conscious pilot group.

 

[JT12345]

Saving the company is not up to Gary. It will be up to us.

 

[slaquer5]

It's getting ugly. They're calling you "Captain Muffin Top". I've asked them to stop but they're merciless.

It's a very body conscious pilot group.

I like that ,athough walking around airports there are a lot of fat ass pilots, SWA included. Even the last ALPA video I just watched has 3 fat asses. Hard to believe that's the best alpa can come up with.

 

[waveflyer]

PCL
I have always said that this ACQUISITION is good for all swa employees. I have always said that I hold AT pilots in high self esteem. I can imagine a tremendous airline and lots of opportunity on the other end of this integration- find 1 post where I've said any different....

Go ahead- I'll be here-
What I am saying is that the integration of the seniority lists needs to take into account that these were not equal jobs and SWA certainly took higher levels of commitment and TIME to get. that's NOT personal.

As for personal attacks- they're only for you PCL- I'd love to apologize- but shortcuts have a LOT to do with this and is also very telling. I think merit and effort and achievements earned ought to determine our place in the industry -
not our ability to give a shady operator $30k.
But that's me- I can "hear" many of ATs arguments a LOT better from someone else who doesn't still hold an ALPA office and got removed by interfering with the SLI.

 

[Cometman]

Saving the company is not up to Gary. It will be up to us.

SWA will survive. It will either be with you or without you.

 

[dicko]

I like that ,athough walking around airports there are a lot of fat ass pilots, SWA included. Even the last ALPA video I just watched has 3 fat asses. Hard to believe that's the best alpa can come up with.

Hehe ... Unfortunately my post was a little tongue in cheek. We're not allowed photos on our union forum. Sad, since the possibilities are endless.

 

[SWA/FO]

Something else to look forward to. SWAPA forum and the "other forum" allow pictures.

:cartman:

 

[canyonblue]

He is the one who has been saying that SWA needs AirTran to grow. The quotes are a matter of public record. I know you like to pretend that they don't exist, but they do.

You like quotes do ya?

“We’d always joke and say Southwest is coming to buy us. When it really happened, I just started crying. I was so overwhelmed with joy, honestly — overwhelmed with joy,”
-Flight Attendant Lori Threlkeld

“I’m looking forward to a better ending to my career than I had expected",
AirTran pilot Rik Carlson

“AirTran is a great little airline, but there was no guarantee that AirTran would be around for 32 years,” “I think Southwest is about as a close to a guarantee as you can get. If anyone can survive, Southwest will be around for 32 years. With a young family and a single paycheck, it just gives us some stability.”
-AirTran pilot Joel Strader


"Joining Southwest Airlines will give us opportunities to grow in ways that simply would not be possible without this agreement."
- AirTran chairman and CEO Robert Fornaro

And my favorite of all time.............:beer:

"I don't "hate" WN, it's just not a place I've ever wanted to work, and I don't think we'd do well in an acquisition situation."- PCL_128

Don't get so pompous on this board, many of us have "known" you for a quite awhile now. Time to reign it in.

 

[Kharma Police]

Don't get so pompous on this board, many of us have "known" you for a quite awhile now. Time to reign it in.

LOL!, you know we can read the last name on your daughters jersey. You former ACA or did you ride it to the end with Independence Air?

 

[JT12345]

SWA will survive. It will either be with you or without you.[/QUOTE

That depends on senority.

 

[General Lee]

I think we are lucky if we get a fair shake with the SLI. I don't think being stapled is lucky. That's the only downside I see being bought by a company with a strong balance sheet and senior pilot group. The whole we are better than you thing was bound to be unavoidable. I accept that it is not possible for a SWA pilot to see this any other way other than their own.

You mean like how Colgan was stapled at Pinnacle/Mesaba? They had a worse balance sheet, some very bad press due to a crash, and no jets. Oh wait, they weren't stapled. They actually did pretty well overall. A lot better than most had expected. It's called arbitration. Look into it. Don't manage your own expectations, and don't let your own NC or SWAPA do it to you either. Let someone with no conflicts of interest decide what really is fair.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Very well put. I couldn't agree more. . . . . If we were going to be be bought, I'm glad it was SWA, but to imply, as many SWA guys have, that we should be grateful to just walk away from our investment and start over at the bottom is ridiculous. We're not filling a vacancy, we're bringing the jobs with us. Don't like the jobs we're bringing? Think they're beneath you somehow? Don't bid 'em.

I agree Ty. You don't owe any thanks to the Southwest pilots, they had NO say in the merger. That was GK's deal with investment bankers. He saw value in the merger, and he expects you to perform just as well as the current Southwest pilots. If that is the case, then you should be paid the same, and when it comes to the SLI, that should be either negotiated to your satisfaction, or you could choose another route, like arbitration, to make sure that ALL parties are treated fairly. Someone on the outside probably could look through the union morass and see where each pilot deserves to be.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

Isn't "outing" people on FI against the TCs?
I'd love it if both sides stop trying to out or pretending or actually doing it-- and just argue the merits/opinions they want. It's anonymous for a reason. Keep it that way. And if anyone thinks that an anonymous board is so influential or gets you so riled up that you have to stoop to trying to find out who people are, it's pretty pathetic.
I'll stop using PCL's initials, even though he and his people outed him long ago- if you know someone- keep it to yourself and don't worry about it-
Keep FI in perspective- remember 1% of AT people = 17. 1% of Wn =59- I really don't think we have that many participating-
it's cathartic and entertaining and most importantly a way to freely work out what you think in a debate w/o your true ID getting trashed if you go overboard bouncing opinions off people.
Besides, you don't win a debate by getting people to be afraid to talk.

Now, with that said we all know SWA is a better job and harder to get and should come with an improvement in seniority.

The only thing I know more, since PCL forgot I feel this way- is that the combination will poise SWA to grow in ways we've been building toward for a long time. We all have bright futures and I don't hate anyone.

 

[General Lee]

You like quotes do ya?

“We’d always joke and say Southwest is coming to buy us. When it really happened, I just started crying. I was so overwhelmed with joy, honestly — overwhelmed with joy,”
-Flight Attendant Lori Threlkeld

“I’m looking forward to a better ending to my career than I had expected",
AirTran pilot Rik Carlson

“AirTran is a great little airline, but there was no guarantee that AirTran would be around for 32 years,” “I think Southwest is about as a close to a guarantee as you can get. If anyone can survive, Southwest will be around for 32 years. With a young family and a single paycheck, it just gives us some stability.”
-AirTran pilot Joel Strader


"Joining Southwest Airlines will give us opportunities to grow in ways that simply would not be possible without this agreement."
- AirTran chairman and CEO Robert Fornaro

And my favorite of all time.............:beer:

"I don't "hate" WN, it's just not a place I've ever wanted to work, and I don't think we'd do well in an acquisition situation."- PCL_128

Don't get so pompous on this board, many of us have "known" you for a quite awhile now. Time to reign it in.

I would absolutely turn these quotes in to an arbitrator. He/she probably will wait 5 seconds before they laugh and then belch. Who cares?



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Isn't "outing" people on FI against the TCs?
I'd love it if both sides stop trying to out or pretending or actually doing it-- and just argue the merits/opinions they want. It's anonymous for a reason. Keep it that way. And if anyone thinks that an anonymous board is so influential or gets you so riled up that you have to stoop to trying to find out who people are, it's pretty pathetic.
I'll stop using PCL's initials, even though he and his people outed him long ago- if you know someone- keep it to yourself and don't worry about it-
Keep FI in perspective- remember 1% of AT people = 17. 1% of Wn =59- I really don't think we have that many participating-
it's cathartic and entertaining and most importantly a way to freely work out what you think in a debate w/o your true ID getting trashed if you go overboard bouncing opinions off people.
Besides, you don't win a debate by getting people to be afraid to talk.

Now, with that said we all know SWA is a better job and harder to get and should come with an improvement in seniority.

The only thing I know more, since PCL forgot I feel this way- is that the combination will poise SWA to grow in ways we've been building toward for a long time. We all have bright futures and I don't hate anyone.

Wave,

This board is supposed to be informative, entertaining, and anonymous. No threats, or "outing" anyone should be allowed. People tend to disagree obviously, and some do cross over "the line." But, healthy debate should be entertaining, and civil. That's why I enjoy this board.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

So Gen-

In your opinion- IF it goes to arbitration
Will an arbitrator take into account average age of each pilot group?
Will an arbitrator take into account that almost 2/3's of AT's fleet are smaller a/c while less than 5% of ours is?
Will an arbitrator take into account the superior contract we bring and the increased competitive hiring mins that resulted in our older group?

I know you're just trying to rule us up- but since you're going to give an opinion whether we care or not- answer each question. I'm curious.

And btw- you seem to be debating a staple that no one but BobDylan is floating... Why?
Yeah to poison the deal...

Im back to agreeing with Lear... Waiting sucks- can't wait til this is done - I'll get all trannies a waist high bottle of kettle one when it's done and all the wild turkey we can handle-

We still have to work out an 8000 pilot shot at 7:37pm on the day this is done...

 

[canyonblue]

Don't get so pompous on this board, many of us have "known" you for a quite awhile now. Time to reign it in.

LOL!, you know we can read the last name on your daughters jersey. You former ACA or did you ride it to the end with Independence Air?

Listen Klowney, nobody is "outing" PCL, I could care less who the guy is. But the fact remains, that the AirTran pilot with the "username" PCL_128 has posted his distaste for Southwest for many years, even while he was at Pinnacle. Now he is posting all over the board using quotations as his case for the future of Southwest and this acquisition. Looking at his past history toward Southwest, many of us have had enough of his "Deep Thoughts".

 

[waveflyer]

Listen Klowney, nobody is "outing" PCL, I could care less who the guy is. But the fact remains, that the AirTran pilot with the "username" PCL_128 has posted his distaste for Southwest for many years, even while he was at Pinnacle. Now he is posting all over the board using quotations as his case for the future of Southwest and this acquisition. Looking at his past history toward Southwest, many of us have had enough of his "Deep Thoughts".

Word.
And with him losing his alpa gig and his Gulfstream history- he's really not the best person to speak for the average AT pilot.

He just looks like a self entitled ex ALPA rep, in the middle of losing an ALPa career he seemed to care about more than flying-with a habit of taking career shortcuts. Since ALPA has a history of poisoning mergers and he just got
booted- accused of interfering with the SLI, if I were at AT, I'd be PMing him to shut it. AT arguments would be better received from people without such transparent conflicts of interest and political ambitions-
It seeps out of every word he says that no matter how great this is for AT pilots, he's bummed it's happening. I dont believe that represents most AT pilots- especially FOs.

 

[General Lee]

So Gen-

In your opinion- IF it goes to arbitration
Will an arbitrator take into account average age of each pilot group?
Will an arbitrator take into account that almost 2/3's of AT's fleet are smaller a/c while less than 5% of ours is?
Will an arbitrator take into account the superior contract we bring and the increased competitive hiring mins that resulted in our older group?

I know you're just trying to rule us up- but since you're going to give an opinion whether we care or not- answer each question. I'm curious.

And btw- you seem to be debating a staple that no one but BobDylan is floating... Why?
Yeah to poison the deal...

Im back to agreeing with Lear... Waiting sucks- can't wait til this is done - I'll get all trannies a waist high bottle of kettle one when it's done and all the wild turkey we can handle-

We still have to work out an 8000 pilot shot at 7:37pm on the day this is done...

Wave,

Ok, I'll give my opinion, but it is just speculation.

Will the arbitrator take into account age? Do you mean Longevity, or time of service? I would say yes, probabaly. Southwest has been around longer.

Will airplane size affect it? Well, 717s are about the same size as 735s, and pretty close to 733s. I would say that is about the same, so I don't think that means much.

The superior contract is one thing that is great, but I don't know if it will be a big factor. Colgan was paid a lot less than the jet operators (Pinnacle and Mesaba), and it didn't seem to matter much. Maybe a little? Colgan Captains were mixed in with the other Captains.

And I don't think anyone but Bob wants a staple, but others on here seem to want the other group to thank them for everything, when they didn't have a choice in this matter. It was up to the boss. It's great they can get a better contract eventually, but they bring a lot to the deal too, in the form of slots, more planes, another base, etc. That cannot be ignored, or put down.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[greenpilot]

Your pay will help you
Our young pilot group will hurt us
Aircraft size shouldn't matter we both fly the same size airplane and both have one payscale.
The fact that we had pilots leave aai for swa will hurt us. I don't think it will matter that some of our pilots had apps in with swa.
At least this is what I've been told by people on mc at other companies who have gone through this.

 

[redflyer65]

that the AirTran pilot with the "username" PCL_128 has posted his distaste for Southwest for many years, even while he was at Pinnacle. Now he is posting all over the board using quotations as his case for the future of Southwest and this acquisition. Looking at his past history toward Southwest, many of us have had enough of his "Deep Thoughts".

Appearantly most of the Trannies feel the same way!

Nice post Green, at least it didn't have any spin..and that counts for alot in my book. Well done.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Isn't "outing" people on FI against the TCs?
I'd love it if both sides stop trying to out or pretending or actually doing it-- and just argue the merits/opinions they want. It's anonymous for a reason. Keep it that way. And if anyone thinks that an anonymous board is so influential or gets you so riled up that you have to stoop to trying to find out who people are, it's pretty pathetic.
I'll stop using PCL's initials, even though he and his people outed him long ago- if you know someone- keep it to yourself and don't worry about it-
Keep FI in perspective- remember 1% of AT people = 17. 1% of Wn =59- I really don't think we have that many participating-
it's cathartic and entertaining and most importantly a way to freely work out what you think in a debate w/o your true ID getting trashed if you go overboard bouncing opinions off people.
Besides, you don't win a debate by getting people to be afraid to talk.

Ah, back to the old Wave.

[/QUOTE]Now, with that said we all know SWA is a better job and harder to get and should come with an improvement in seniority.
[/QUOTE]

It took 30 years to get there with 9/11 and multiple bankruptcies of major airlines, we were only in our 17th, we're not worthy, we're not worthy, we're not worthy. It's kind of ironic to hear WN pilots discounting us just like other carriers' pilots discounting WN for so many years. Immitation is the sincerest form of flattery .

[/QUOTE]
The only thing I know more, since PCL forgot I feel this way- is that the combination will poise SWA to grow in ways we've been building toward for a long time. We all have bright futures and I don't hate anyone.[/QUOTE]

And... back to the old Wave.

 

[PCL_128]

It seeps out of every word he says that no matter how great this is for AT pilots, he's bummed it's happening.

Still trying to put words in my mouth, wave? You couldn't be more wrong. I think this merger is better for everyone. I'm quite happy about it.

 

[ASADFW7]

PCL I don't care who you are nor do you care who some of the SWA pilots are, spending too much energy on flightinfo is not accidental. Swapa is not driving the message here, I wish alpa would stop. This is a pilot board not propaganda.