Super Pilots....I'm workin' with Idiots!

[sf3boy]

I have flown with a few captains over the years with 5000+ hrs that had no business being in the left seat of a car let alone an aircraft with paying passengers. Just got off a such a trip a couple of days ago. In my mind skill and judgement come from a mixture of training and experience. Obviously the more experience, the more skill and judgement.....in most cases. Those who pay to get on at a regional so they do not have to go through experience says a lot about their character as well as their (possible) airmanship abilities.

 

[Freight Dog]

I can understand some frustrations, and having been a captain, I can relate in some ways.

Yes, as a captain, I expected my FO's to be competent, and fully-functional crewmember. In other words, if crapola hit the fan, I expect a cool, calm professional in the right seat to handle the emergency. I also expected my FO's to feel confident flying IFR and in various challenging situations.

I will gladly demonstrate effective techniques pertinent to the type of aircraft, aircraft handling and letting the new FO learn what the airplane can do and what it cannot do. HOWEVER, it is not my job to teach FO's the basics of flight (crosswind correction), use of rudder, or teach the FO basic IFR skills, as they should have had that before getting hired.

 

[Alaskaairlines]

What is MAPD charge for the trainging in order to get a job with them? What happens if you have all your tickets by then?

Also, what are the schools that get you a job at on of the Delta Connections? Anything for CoEx?

Thanks guys!

 

[bobbysamd]

MAPD and Mesa PACE

What is MAPD charge for the trainging in order to get a job with them? What happens if you have all your tickets by then?

The Mesa Pilot Development website has the answers to your questions.

MAPD is a Part 141 program. People with their Privates tried to challenge out of the Mesa private program and usually failed. It might have had to do in part with Mesa trying to milk as much money as possible out of them, but I think it had to do more with not being given the chance to learn Mesa's unique line procedures. Zero-time students learn Mesa line procedures from their first day, which is one reason why MAPD is a good program.

I do not believe that you can test out of any ratings beyond Private.

Contrary to popular belief, MAPD is not P-F-T. Although the training you receive has a decided Mesa bent to it, the Commercial-Instrument-Multi you earn at MAPD is good anywhere. Moreover, there is no guarantee that you will be interviewed, although a signficant percentage of MAPD students are interviewed by the airline.

On the other hand, if you want to see how far you can get with all your ratings, Mesa offers the PACE program. I would be wary of that program. Along with the usual P-F-T caveats there is no guarantee of your fate beyond "the interview."

Good luck with your choices.

 

[stillaboo]

Originally posted by bobbysamd
Just to clarify these points. I can update Bobby's info a bit, though, generally, he's on target.

People with their Privates tried to challenge out of the Mesa private program and usually failed.

I don't know of anyone in the past 4 years who has even attempted to challenge the PPL. I didn't even know it was an option, otherwise I would have tried . . . and likely failed! Bobby's right, the proceedures Mesa insists upon are not something you can pick up overnight. They will make you a better pilot though.

Moreover, there is no guarantee that you will be interviewed, although a signficant percentage of MAPD students are interviewed by the airline.

There is a guaranteed interview with Mesa Air Group (Air Midwest, Mesa, and Freedom - which are ALL on 1 seniorty list under ALPA now ) if you successfully complete the program. There is no guarantee you will successfully complete the program, nor is there one that you will get hired after you interview. I'd guess about 35% of students who start the MAPD program don't make it to the right seat.

On the other hand, if you want to see how far you can get with all your ratings, Mesa offers the PACE program. I would be wary of that program. Along with the usual P-F-T caveats there is no guarantee of your fate beyond "the interview."

The PACE program recently changed their policy so that you don't have to have any multi or your CMEL rating. Go to the website and call MAPD for details. Most PACE grads who have interviewed in the last 4 years have been hired, but not all (some people just don't have what it takes to fly professionally. No matter how much training they go through, some just can't fly to the standards Mesa insists upon.) Now that PACE has lowered its requirements (they're deperate for students, honestly), I think it's the best thing out there. No PFT, 4 month program get your CMEL, get an interview with Mesa, etc. Just don't think it's easy. You are held to the same standards as the students who've been there since their private, and the learning curve is steep, but manageable.

If you want to go Delta Connection, go to Commair Academy. There's info on it on the board if you search for it. I'm sure that there's programs out there that feed into just about every regional by now. Just be careful, b/c many students seem to feel they were the victims of broken promises.

Once you get on-line, don't start bragging about what kind of aviation god you are. That's how low-timers get branded as 'super pilots' in threads like this, a case of a couple egotistical jerks ruining it for a whole group of pilots willing to eat humble-pie for the oportunity to fly 121 with low hours. Let your flying speak for you. If you've got the skills, then you have a right to be in the seat.

-Boo!

 

[bobbysamd]

MAPD screwups/screwoffs

Originally posted by stillaboo
There is a guaranteed interview with Mesa Air Group (Air Midwest, Mesa, and Freedom . . . .

Assuming, of course, that you keep your yap shut, hit all the gates in the program, keep the gatekeepers happy, maintain a B average in your flight courses, and keep your yap shut. Then, you'll get "the interview."

Essentially, "the interview" is yours to lose. That happened to one of my Mesa "students" ten years ago. Actually, the guy flew reasonably well and was a decent student. But overbearing and a major problem type. He was well known in infamy. I received this individual. He started off fine but became increasingly demanding. Then, he did not schedule for several weeks (which was fine by me). Then, he starts to play catch-up, arrives unprepared, flies with another instructor, and busts his stage check. During this time, he starts arguing with me during his long instrument cross-country regarding the pitch v. power debate, saying that the Assistant Chief declared what controlled what and that he would disregard my 3300 hours of dual given input on the matter (I am being vague deliberately because I don't want to incite another pitch v. power debate. ). I had enough of his lack of respect and went to the Chief Instructor. The Chief Instructor, who was quite familiar with this student, finally decided that this fellow could finish the program but he would not be sent to Corporate for an interview. By exhibiting attitude, this person lost a real opportunity that some people with tons more of experience never get.

Word to the MAPD wise should be sufficient.

Did I say to keep your yap shut?

Good luck with MAPD. And thanks to Stillaboo for updating my comments.

 

[bandit110]

The only thing scarrier to watch than putting a 300 hour guy in an airliner is see a 3000 hour airline captain getting an initial tail wheel sign off.

 

[stillaboo]

Spaz attack!

overbearing and a major problem type. He was well known in infamy . . . he would disregard my 3300 hours of dual given input on the matter

300 or 30,000 hours, would you want to fly with this 'spaz'?! Exactly. There was a guy more recently who wasn't hired. He says it's b/c he's middle eastern. Others say it might be because he called an administrator "a b*tch", landed on a closed runway b/c he had 'a fuel emergency' (it was found that he had about 1.5 hours of fuel left when he landed, enough to fly to his destination and still keep his 1/2 hour reserve), and failed a check 4 times (3 failures means you're kicked out). Is it any surprise he was willing to go to Freedom?

Maybe these 300 hour to the right seat programs do the industry a favor by seperating the wheat from the chafe?

Come on, can I get a little love here . . . a hug . . . anything?!

Originally posted by bandit110 The only thing scarrier to watch than putting a 300 hour guy in an airliner is see a 3000 hour airline captain getting an initial tail wheel sign off.

I watched a 777 captain try to grease a 172 on the other day. He flared right where he was supposed to . . . in a triple 7! Good thing that 172 has forgiving gear, 'cause he must have stalled it out at least 40 ft. above the runway!

-Boo!

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

DOH!!!

 

[GLSoar]

Experience the best teacher

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