Super Pilots....I'm workin' with Idiots!

[sleepy]

I was always told, "wait until you upgrade". Well, I never thought it would be this bad! But I guess I can't say that I'm surprised when the guy sitting to my right has 300 hours...TOTAL TIME!!! For whatever reason (ASA) has found it reasonable to put a guy in the right seat with extremely, I mean extremely, low time which spells out exactly ZERO experience. Now, don't get me wrong I'm not asking for perfection, but if they could actually remember their call-sign a third the time that would be an improvement! Not to mention my most recent experience with a Super Pilot, he stated in no uncertain terms that he doesn't like night flying and that he can't land at night. GIVE ME A BREAK! This is the second time I've flown with this guy and in 4 months I haven't seen a whole lot of improvement. And what's the problem with calculating a frigin descent? My god people!!! Here's a hint triple the amount of altitude you need to lose...and that will be the DME you need start your descent from....then multiply your groundspeed times 5 and that's your sink rate. Could it get much harder?
This is my favorite!
You need to have an instrument rating to be an airline pilot, correct?
Then why (speaking to the Super Pilots) are you scared to fly through clouds?
I sum it up like this....if you can't do your job you don't deserve your job! Period. End of statement. I don't have my CFI some I am not a Flight Instructor...I am an airline pilot!
And for Godsake....SHUTUP!!! You talk to frigin much!!!!!!!!!!!

Wow, I've had some similar experiences with a few ASA Captains. I guess they were 300 hour FO's who grew up to be 1,500 hour Captains.

Hey Captain, did you do your job and fill out an FO evaluation on the pilot in question. Of course that would require you to show it to the FO in question and then forward it to the CP. If you didn't, then you have nothing to complain about.

 

[acaTerry]

I've got to say something in Rod's defense here. You all seem to be missing the point. This 300 hour "pilot" is employed at an airline, so he should have an appropriate level of competence, which obviously is lacking.
Lay off the CFI stuff, I've been a CFI many years and also been an airline pilot so I can tell you that the point of Rod being impatient b/c he is not a CFI is moot. An airline pilot is expected to be competent. An FO is supposed to be able to take over if the CA is incapacitated. This guy could not take over watching paint dry by the sounds of things.
Whoever posed the question about having the oppertunity to be an airline pilot at 300 hrs so take it....THINK!! Does having 300 hrs make you deserve to be an airline pilot? Does having 300 hrs make you able to be an airline pilot? It will depend on the individual. But I think it is ABSOLUTELY accurate and appropriate to say the average 300 hr pilot is NOT ready for airline flying. It is more than a matter of knowing what buttons to push. There is much more to it. All the 300 hr pilots out there, I'm not picking on you here, just stating a fact. Don't throw ab intio at me. Some ab initio programs, such as LFT, are really good and have the low timers ready. Some others simply fool a pilot into thinking they are ready by pumping them full of hype.
If somebody comes on board at 300 hrs to an airline, nobody should cut them any slack over the "stop picking on me, I only have 300 hours" stuff. Fact is, this person is an airline pilot. Period. And no CA should fill out a probationary report as SAT if the pilot is UNSAT. The airplane, ATC, the weather, none of these are going to give you a break because you only have 300 hours. So neither should the CA. A good CA will not treat the low-timer any differently than he would a 3000 hr FO. This means you treat the FO with the same courtesy and respect, but also the same standards. It is your duty, your responsibilty. If someone can not do such an elementery thing as calculate a descent, he does not belong in an airliner. This does not matter if he has 300 or 3000 hours. Look behind you....see all those people? They are counting on you to be safe, knowlegable and strong. Don't let them down.

 

[pilotyip]

300 hr does not define the pilot

This may not be the case, but if that 300 pilot had been throughout the proper training there is a very good chance he will be head and shoulders above a 1,000 or 2,000 hr pilot. This guy could have come from the an ANG training program and is qualified to fly the KC-135 or A-10 or F-16. At 300 hrs I was sitting the left seat of a P-3, a 120,000#'s + four engine turbo prop flying around Viet Nam, with one engine shut down most of the time. I did this with no problems because I was properly trained. I have hired army Helo drivers with 50 hrs of fixed time including 5 hrs MEL, they were better pilots than many of our general aviation pilots with 2-3000 hrs, these guys had no problems checking out as Captain on our jets. So time alone does make a pilot good or bad.

 

[Skank]

Another consideration is attitude. If someone is a little weak, but has a great attitude, and is willing to take criticism, good! But if you have someone who does dumb stuff, and is an a$$ about it, let pro standards know.

Pilotyip- Thanks for that quick endorsement of rotorheads. We don't hear that very often.

 

[dasburt]

I am a retired Navy Helo Pilot with the aspirations of someday getting an airline job.

I consider myself a very good pilot. No ego at all. I am good at what I do because I was taught to be a professional Aviator by my Aircraft Commanders. These Officers taught a scared young pilot how to become a Professional. That was their job. That’s how I have treated my copilots through out my career. I always believed it was my responsibility to train my copilots to become aircraft commanders. If they failed I failed in doing my job. No copilot of mine ever failed to upgrade to Aircraft Commander. That’s means I did my job.

I have flown all over the world with some of the best Aviators alive. I have also flown with Captains that I would not want to be in my aircraft if things ever hit the fan.

The best advice I give young Aviators is my philosophy I have about flying. "I can always learn something new from the most senior Aviator to the most junior Aviator". When it comes the time I stop learning from other Aviators. Its time for me to go back to fishing for a living.

When an Aivator stops learning, he becomes dangerous and complacency will get him and others killed. Just look at the NTSB accident reports attributing the causes of the crashes to pilot error. Especially for high time pilots. I was always taught that the most dangerous time for an Aviator was when he had very low hours and when he had very high number of hours.

Mr. Goziya it is your job to take this low time pilot and teach him the skills that will make him a Professional Aviator. That is what your Airline pays you to do. They hired him and now you train him. You have 2 major responsibilities as an Airline Captain. Get the airplane to its destination safe and on time. Second is to ensure your FO is progressing well to becoming a Professional Aviator.

Did you tell him his attitude was unacceptable for a FO? Did you do a report when you flew with him later and his performance did not improve? And most importantly did you teach him the gouge you wrote about (thanks by the way, I did not know that) or did you just sit there and criticize every thing he did or just stay quiet. Either way he learned nothing and you failed in your responsibility as Captain.

Captains that are overbearing will not teach their FO’s anything other than how to be the same type of Captain.

I agree with other Aviators on this board. This is not the place to be discussing an FO’s performance or lack of performance on the job. It should take place in the crew room and in private, Captain to FO. If that is not done then you have not performed your duties as a Captain.

Of by the way I have learned a few things from you and other Aviators on this board. Thanks.

Pilotyip, thanks for the kind words for Helo drivers, don’t hear them very much from stiff wing drivers. Got any job for poor old helo drivers.

Dasburt

 

[acaTerry]

That's right. 300 hrs as a figure is only as imporatant as the pilot's skill level. If its a good pilot at 300 hrs that's what is expected of an airline pilot. But what I'm saying is that this guy who Rod is talking about showed absolute lack of basic flying knowledge that is expected of an airline pilot. So whether he had 300 or 3000 hrs, his performance was poor.
Sure, a CA is to "coach" an FO. But like an NFL coach trying to teach plays to a quarterback who does not even know who he's not allowed to throw the ball to, the CA should not have to be teaching BASIC flying skills that every instrument pilot knows.
The bottom line is....you're either ready or you're not. If you are not ready, you should not be there. There is no making excuses for someone just because they are low time. They took the job, so they should be competent for it.
Let's say that you went to the doctor for a surgery, and he did not even know that you were not anesthetized, so he started cutting while you were awake. Are you going to say "it's OK, you're a new doctor" or are you going to expect this doctor to know his stuff and be angry about his incompetence?
Sure, he went through the training program, probably AQP. Really, there is little or no cruise portion, no ATC, etc so a lot of the things we see on the line are not there. So realistically, most 300 hr pilots are simply not ready for this type of flying. But they take the job and when they screw up everyone starts bringing out the excuses and crying towels. It still stands the same...If you take a job, at least be basically competent. If not, don't look for excuses.
A CA is expected to coach an FO, not teach him how to fly.

 

[Strikefinder]

I think you'll all agree that there is something radically different between getting through training and succeeding on the line. Though we all like to make it sound like part of the same package, there is an entirely different set of skills associated with dealing with engine and hydraulic failures and dealing with the day-to-day decisions that come about on a normal trip.

The ab initio programs that are out there do a pretty good job of building structure to get people through the training, and in the experiences I've had in training (though not a lot by any means, a few, at least), the people with backgrounds rooted in these programs tend to do very well. I'd like to think I did.

That said, my first time out of the sim and in the real cockpit was an entirely different matter. As others have said, this is always true to some extent, but if you are not only learning a new, faster airplane, but how to operate out of busy airports, get an IFR flight plan, fly in hard IMC, etc., then you are obviously way behind the power curve. Some people do better than others, but nobody does as well as someone who has had those experiences previously. Eventually you catch up, but the trick is to not anger everyone you fly with until then.

I got incredibly luck pretty early in my career and flew a jet with about 800 hours. I then had to take a few steps back and go to the flight instruction thing and eventually the 135 freight thing before climbing back into a kerosene burner. I think I did pretty well the first time, considering, but I know there's a big difference now that I've got a broader base of experience. I won't affix a number to something like this; it's pointless and varies by person and type of experience.

I guess, to throw gas on the fire, that you're both right. Ab initio programs, while they have their duds, do a good job at training certain things, and their graduates tend to excel in those areas compared to someone that's been flight instructing or flying boxes. But there's a lot you learn from those things that can't be learned in a sim, too. The most important thing is for either the 300 ab initio grad or the 1500 hour CFI or the 3000 hour freight dog is to appreciate the opportunity given him/her and learn to fill in the gaps.

 

[SquirrelDog]

Be easy on Rod!

I understand where Rod is comming from though he could of said it in softer words. Yes 300 hrs doesn't tell what type of pilot one is but it always reflects the experice a pilot has under thier belt.

Rod situation is understandable, I have been there and have instructed for awhile. And yes being a Captain means also being an instructor too, I have no problem with that. But lets face it some people need a career but flying isn't it. Too many have slipped through the cracks and seemed to be on crack.

Squirreldog

 

[Brother Francis]

"Ain't a horse that cain't be rode, ain't a dude that cain't be throwed."

 

[Badger]

Don't book on pft airlines.

Bought a ticket for my wife this morning on a major airline. Could have saved a few bucks by choosing the RJ flight operated by a well known seat-selling 300 hr. loving operator (Cough...Pinac.. cough. ). Both of us will sleep better.

A 600 hr. pilot has not developed any judgement skills and has not been exposed to enough probability of dealing with an urgent/emergency situation. The fact that there are experienced folks with great resumes waiting while the kid with mom & dad's credit card buys his way in is a true insult to public safety.

Hey but he gets to have his picture taken so grandma can see him in his fancy pilot costume right?