Super Pilots....I'm workin' with Idiots!

[bigD]

A 600 hr. pilot has not developed any judgement skills

Oh I dunno...I'd say I have SOME judgment skills! Perhaps not enough to be safely sitting in the right seat of a 1900, but I don't consider myself a menace to society in the Duchess!

 

[Visceral]

Re: Don't book on pft airlines.

A 600 hr. pilot has not developed any judgement skills and has not been exposed to enough probability of dealing with an urgent/emergency situation.

The NTSB database is filled with ATP level pilots that lacked "judgement skills". Just because a pilot only has 600 hours, it doesn't equate to the inability to handle an emergency.

 

[JJJ]

With regard to Pinnacle, they do hire 500 hr pilots in the past and continue to do so. Recently from GIA. Despite having low total time, they are pretty sharp... at least the ones that I've flown with.

I can remember just a few years ago when all you needed was 1000 total and 100 multi to get a job at a regional. These were mostly flight instructors. What's the difference between a cfi with 1000 hours and a GIA guy with 500? Does flying around the pattern in a cessna give you more or better judgement than a GIA guy that's been flying in an airline environment for a few hundred hours?

There is also a CA in the left seat that has a fair bit of experience. I can's speak for all of the regionals but I know that a number of them only require ATP mins to upgrade. Pinnacle requires 3500TT or 3000TT with 500 in type.

Personally I would rather have a 4-5K CA and a 500hr FO flying my family than a 1500 hr CA and a 1000 hr FO, but that is my opinion.

I do think it sucks when there is a back door deal when there are more qualified pilots with recomendations that can't get interviews here.

 

[B190Captain]

I can remember just a few years ago when all you needed was 1000 total and 100 multi to get a job at a regional. These were mostly flight instructors. What's the difference between a cfi with 1000 hours and a GIA guy with 500? Does flying around the pattern in a cessna give you more or better judgement than a GIA guy that's been flying in an airline environment for a few hundred hours?

Well the CFI has definetly more time in the right seat!

No pun intended.

Hell, I would go to Pinnacle but I would have to sell my house, wife and kids to be able to afford it.

 

[metrodriver]

And Pinnacle isn't even hiring of the street last I heard.

I have flown as a high time fo with 1500hr upgrade captains and some were scary escpecially when things went wrong. This was sometimes the first time ever that something went the other way or weather conditions they had never encountered before. Some others were very competent. I haven't had the 'treatment' from the other side yet. So I can understand Rod's situation. This fo should be able to bring the plane back safely when the captain can not tell him how. However if this is one of the first flights online for this guy, he still has a lot to learn and the captain has to teach him. Maybe he should ask him the question'did someone ever tell you how to do.......', 'let me show you'.

 

[climbhappy]

300 hour wonder pilot.....

They should be checking boarding passes not flying!

 

[PCL_128]

And Pinnacle isn't even hiring of the street last I heard.

Not true. If you have a recommendation from someone within Pinnacle you can usually get an inteview.

Badger:

Pinnacle does not charge for the right seat. Get informed before you make such ignorant statements next time. Pinnacle stopped the PFT thing long ago. None of the pilots coming from GIA pay Pinnacle a dime.

 

[stillaboo]

Pinnacle stopped the PFT thing long ago. None of the pilots coming from GIA pay Pinnacle a dime.

Don't they pay GIA a couple dimes though for that privledge?

-Boo!

 

[climbhappy]

putting this thread in its place

posted by badger...a six hundred hour guy doesn't have any judgment skills....

listen, i flew with and recommended a guy who was hired by CC air. he later went to colgan, got recalled, and in a class at Comair. with 500 hours, many ina metro, and when i met in the J32, he had more composure and smoothness than many 2000 hour guys .... he's what we call a capt's dream. we don't have to pull out charts. do briefs or set up radios.

just sit back relax, and enjoy the flight, it's your leg....

my key point is time is not the issue. some have inate skills that
SHINE when they're called upon... the others are just average to below average..... the joke is we're talking about this topic on this site, while thousands of skilled guys sit at home cutting the cheese as well as the grass..

 

[Alaskaairlines]

I would like to comment also. I am just on of those guys in training, but I recently talked to a regional capt, he got hired wiht 300tt into a B1900. I asked him how is that possible? He said as long as you can get an interview and prove to them that you had quality experience then you can make it.

He told me if you get the right training, a 300 hr pilot can be just as good as 1500 hr.

Any comments on that fellas?

 

[stillaboo]

He told me if you get the right training, a 300 hr pilot can be just as good as 1500 hr.

Any comments on that fellas?

Just make sure your put emphasis on the words can be. Most people need more than 300 hours. There're some who don't. They are few and far between. If they are given the right training and the right opportunity presents itself, they can do just as well as any other new hire.

It's really a shame that there are a small percentage of guys in 300 hour-type programs who, before they're even hired at an airline, go braggin' about it to other pilots, CFI's, and 121 line pilots. Once a 300 hour pilot gets on-line, he/she doesn't want to draw attention to the fact that he/she only has 300 hours, and they don't b/c they fly smooth, just like they should. Not surprisingly, the % who decided to brag before they were even hired usually don't end up flying the line at 300 hours.

Judge a pilot by the skills they bring to the flight deck. If they have it at 300 hours, then they have it. If they don't, report them as unsafe.

-Boo!

 

[metrodriver]

I know a guy who is flying for pinnacle and who has quite an accomplished record, but none of his recommendations has been called for an interview. It seems that almost all the new hires here come from GIA or NWA and partner airlines who are furloughing.

 

[stillaboo]

Do the GIA hires at Pinnacle have to PFT to GIA?

I can see it now:

"Shiny new jet FO's for sale, only $25K each!"

-Boo!

 

[bobbysamd]

300-hour wonder pilots

Ab initio programs work, but it helps to have good material. I instructed at MAPD ten years ago and, before that, at FSI training Alitalia pilots. The Alitalia guys were hand-picked individuals and mostly flew really well and kept up with the course. They had to keep up because they received no extra training periods. We had one who was washed out.

I am 100% positive that MAPD students are accepted primarily on their ability to pay and not because of their potential. I had at least three students whom, I'm sure, went on the Mesa and became captains. Two were extremely sharp; the third was alright. I had a couple of others who had bad attitudes. I also recall one who was not my student who was pushed along and was barely safe. I don't think she made it.

MAPD students are imbued with Mesa procedures from their first day of training, but once they get to class they're on their own. I know that Mesa is not shy at all about washing out people from class. Moreover, MAPD grads have to take the same 121 ride as more experienced street hires. Both of these points should be dispositive of the competency question. MAPDers are on probation the same as everyone else, and very well may be subject to the associated politics of probation as street hires.

You can produce a technically-proficient pilot in 300 hours in a quality program, but expererience is the best teacher. Everyone was new at one time, including Rod the Captain. Maybe he forgot that. Good captains teach. They show newcomers the ropes. Suggested reading would be the first few chapters of Fate Is The Hunter, and how Ernest Gann learned from his early captains.

 

[RJlifer]

Ever had a new FO suck the gear out from under ya? That is still my favorite section in Fate Is The Hunter.

I've got nothing against low timers. The afforementioned FO was actually a 2500hr new hire. Just a little quick on the trigger. No metal bent, just a fresh pair of shorts and a couple brews at the end of the day.