Sully and Jeff Skiles LGA-CLT today

[General Lee]

General Lee,

Since the non-issue of the ditch switch has gone right over your head, might I suggest your brief to the aft FA, and closing the outflow valve might be totally useless given the potential damage to the aft lower pressure vessel as in Sully's plane? Perhaps we can wait until the final NTSB critique on structural certification requirements for ditching transport aircraft?

As it stands in the Usair ditching, both of these items turned out to be not relevant to what happened, and both actions would have mattered just as much to the final outcome as Sully not collecting the raft survival bags, and passing out packets of drinking water to those standing on the wing.

But then again, if it works for you :erm:

Tell that to the aft stew that told Dr. Phil she almost drowned due to the rush of water in the back. I would have to think that opening a door in the back might be bad with the plane at that nose high attitude after the ditch. But hey, whatever floats your bus!

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

...I sometimes wonder IF the "general" is someones KID starving for attention???

Didn't you hear? I am you long lost son. Mom told me you found a better deal with some guy named "Stan" and that you had moved to Key West. I bet you are really tan!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Captzaahlie]

http://www.clearspring.com/widgets/4727a250e66f9723?p=4ac62b41d0e0edce&flv=siteDomain%3Dnbc%26showID%3D61%26configUrl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fvideo.nbcuni.com%252FanalyticsTestBench%252Fwidget_config.xml%26adType%3Dpreroll300250%26moreLikeLink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.nbc.com%252Fsaturday-night-live%252Fvideo%252Fclips%252Fcaptain-roger%252F1162659%252F%253Dnew%26videoPlayerSkin%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fvideo.nbcuni.com%252Fwidgetxml%252FsingleClip1%252Fskin14.swf%26siteShow%3Dnbc.com%26loadPlayerAtInit_experiment%3Dfalse%26video_imgurl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fvideo.nbcuni.com%252Fplayer%252Fmezzanine%252Fimage.php%253Fw%253D512%2526h%253D288%2526path%253Dnbc2%252F13447185032c7e85016c79d70f8a7234_mezzn.jpg%2526hash%253Df6b4e715b951ada41b8da280172379f5%26video_title%3DCaptain%2520Roger%26logoLink%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.nbc.com%253Fvty%253DfromWidget_Video%26video_url%3D1162659%26video_description%3DCaptain%2520Roger%2520thinks%2520Captain%2520Sully%2520is%2520for%2520the%2520birds.%26clipID%3D1162659%26configID%3D1115%26bgndUrl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fvideo.nbcuni.com%252Fwidgetxml%252FsingleClip1%252Fbg.swf%26configUrl_experiment%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fvideo.nbcuni.com%252FanalyticsTestBench%252Fwidget_config_analyticsTestBench.xml%26graboffUrl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fvideo.nbcuni.com%252Fwidgetxml%252FsingleClip1%252Fnbcshare.png%26wName%3DNBC%2520Video%26omniture%3DNBC%252Cprod%26textFieldColor%3DFFFFFF%26configxmlPath%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fvideo.nbcuni.com%252Fwidgetxml%252FsingleClip1%252Fsingleclip_omniConfig.xml%26experimentShowIds%3D--61--%252C--243--%252C--78--%252C--29--

 

[Captzaahlie]

zorry zonker zaw zat zu already posted ze zame link......

 

[Bringupthebird]

General Lee,

Since the non-issue of the ditch switch has gone right over your head, might I suggest your brief to the aft FA, and closing the outflow valve might be totally useless given the potential damage to the aft lower pressure vessel as in Sully's plane? Perhaps we can wait until the final NTSB critique on structural certification requirements for ditching transport aircraft?

As it stands in the Usair ditching, both of these items turned out to be not relevant to what happened, and both actions would have mattered just as much to the final outcome as Sully not collecting the raft survival bags, and passing out packets of drinking water to those standing on the wing.

But then again, if it works for you :erm:

Do you suppose having the presence of mind to realize you are too slow for an unassisted air start might prompt you to open the APU bleed and get some air going to engines might help? I hear it helps to have the engines spinning pretty fast if you want them to start.

Sully had the situational awareness to at least start the APU, but Skiles didn't know what to do with it.

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Do you suppose having the presence of mind to realize you are too slow for an unassisted air start might prompt you to open the APU bleed and get some air going to engines might help? I hear it helps to have the engines spinning pretty fast if you want them to start.

Sully had the situational awareness to at least start the APU, but Skiles didn't know what to do with it.

I'm not USair or fly a bus. I don't know enough on the sequence regarding the APU, nor if it was possible to restart after goose grinding. I do know that human nature in this scenario with 99% of us would be "WTF..2 engines?" and taking a little longer than the typical simulator engine failure problem analysis. Now add to that the APU spool up time from hitting the switch and they wouldn't be far above the water.
Was the crew perfect? I doubt it. Then again they all survived something that never happened before. More than a few here would have a memorial near TEB or flowers on the LGA piers if they were flying that leg.

 

[B-atch]

Didn't you hear? I am you long lost son. Mom told me you found a better deal with some guy named "Stan" and that you had moved to Key West. I bet you are really tan!


Bye Bye--General Lee

In that case, come on down SON. I've got someone you'll love to meet. His name is Burt and he prefers "Professionals" as your self!!

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Tell that to the aft stew that told Dr. Phil she almost drowned due to the rush of water in the back. I would have to think that opening a door in the back might be bad with the plane at that nose high attitude after the ditch. But hey, whatever floats your bus!

Bye Bye--General Lee

You didn't think squat. We were all told that a ditched airplane is just going to "float" and everybody would have an easy step into the rafts, front, middle and aft. Ripping out the lower aft body and the CG effects from the engine separation are what caused the nose high attitude in this case, both of which you surely didn't think of before this accident.

That FA almost drowned because the water kept coming in from below. They were up to there necks by the time the line forward started moving.

 

[General Lee]

In that case, come on down SON. I've got someone you'll love to meet. His name is Burt and he prefers "Professionals" as your self!!

Did you just say I would love HIS MEAT? Come on Dad, I don't go that way, not that there is anything wrong with that. You and Stan go have fun dancing or whatever, and don't let Burt come between you!


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ableone]

...The "ditch switch" is on the ditching checklist. it is 3 pages long, and totally obsolete at 3000 ft. The immediate threat in this case was a dual engine failure, which would warrant the dual engine flame-out in-flight restart checklist. These guys attempted to regain thrust all the way in. What would YOU have done General? oh master of the skies.

If what you say is true the crew should not have utilized this checklist. They should have either selected another or ignored the QRH completely and instead relied on their understanding of the airplane, it's systems and their current condition.

 

[ableone]

Thanks for putting that tool in his place.

Maybe the idiot can tell us how effective closing the outflow valve (2.5 Sq/ft?) would have been when probably 150+ sq/ft of lower aft body fuselage skin was ripped open by the impact.

The ditching sw also closes the pack inlet doors. With those doors open water would enter and tear off the under-fuselage fairings. Had those doors been closed it is entirely possible the body skin would not have been torn.

 

[J.Otto]

Meet Jeff...

This months (Oct.) Flying Magazine has a nice little article on Jeff Skiles - the forgotten hero. Les Abend does him some justice and tells his story and background in his monhtly column. He had 20K too, ya know. Poor guy just came off IOE too!!!

 

[General Lee]

The ditching sw also closes the pack inlet doors. With those doors open water would enter and tear off the under-fuselage fairings. Had those doors been closed it is entirely possible the body skin would not have been torn.

But wait, C150ETOPS doesn't want to hear that.......... can I hear a Wut Wut??


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[C-150ETOPS]

The ditching sw also closes the pack inlet doors. With those doors open water would enter and tear off the under-fuselage fairings. Had those doors been closed it is entirely possible the body skin would not have been torn.

ableone,

As I mentioned, I don't fly the A320. Thanks for the info. I would note that from the pics I saw, the damage to the lower aft body started aft of the center pack/wheelwell fuselage with no visible evidence of tearing aft. It appears the damage came as the lower aft body contacted the water in the flare, but will wait for the NTSB on that one. Not sure how the pack doors could take 80mph water into them as it settled.

"But wait, C150ETOPS doesn't want to hear that.......... can I hear a Wut Wut??"

G-Lee,

If you had any knowledge of this, you would have brough it up before. Perhaps you can explain the nose up attitude with water that entered the aircraft forward of the center of gravity if the pack doors were a factor.

It's not often that one side is a total ****************************** on this board, (ok, maybe it is), but G-Lee ranks in the top 5 for his knowledge on the subject.

 

[Bringupthebird]

deleted

 

[ableone]

Water entering through the open outflow valve would have a similar destructive effect on the tailcone area.

 

[BeeFCaKe]

Glad they made it...