Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

[I-R-DXR]

LOL

wow don't I feel like a pilgrim in an unholy land


Sorry seems I brought god back into this discussion


.

 

[Diesel]

Well i was going to type a reply but ce750drvr hit the nail on the head.

I don't need to explain to all the pilots on this board how much we do day in and day out. I believe that my level of customer service has gone up higher than it ever was before. My goal? To make sure the owners are on our side. To make sure they value the level of service we provide them.

Think about crewfood for a minute. They don't buy us crewfood because they are nice and want us happy. they buy us crewfood because it keeps us moving, keeps us on in the seat. We aren't taking an hour lunch down at applebees. They know the tradeoff for catering is a jet that isn't making money.

 

[Grizz]

GRIZZ: would it be appropriate to post a reply off the SU board from brother G that explained why we left this counter proposal on the table?

Contact him directly via our board to see if he has no problems with you posting it over here. If he doesn't, we won't have a problem with it either.

 

[Grizz]

Your comment about the BRK reports does beg the question: why did the union not suggest its own auditor?

2 reasons that I can think of right away:

1) NetJets wants to selectively pick and choose what books are looked at. Regardless of who audits the books with the company selecting what we get to see it's hard to get an accurate picture of where all the money is going to.

2) Business decisions made by NetJets management control both the short term and long term profit and loss of the company. The company has made it very clear that they have been willing to sacrafice short term profits to gain market share. We're unwilling to conitune financing that effort with wages that are well below what NBAA averages are. In other words - if the business model is so badly laid out that NetJets can't make a profit and pay it's employees a fair wage, most of us want to know that right now before we waste anymore time at this company.

 

[Live4flyng]

I came here to find some sort of the truth. It become very apparent that if you even question the SU you get flamed here.

If you really want truthful answers, post your questions and they will be answered with facts.

 

[ce750drvr]

I have to appologize about the harshness of my post. The tension builds after a while.

We did ask for an auditor from our side to look at "certain" books but were denied by the company. We are suppose to just believe what they tell us.

And you are right about "our backs", I will concede that. We are not trying to "mess" with anybodys' family. I agree you are also way underpaid. The problem is, we are union and can fight for wages and work rules. We have the tools and the clout to do that. You are non-union and have to engage in "negotiations" solo, therefore, you and your counterparts, can not apply pressure to get what you deserve because of the "individual" negotiations. If you ask for what you are worth, the company would tell you to get lost because there is no ramification for doing so. We are in a unique postion when in a union, and the reason we are union is for the protections we are afforded.

Though it may be unpopular, disliking SU is not against the law. You may feel as you please. However, they are the first group here that truley has this pilot groups best interest at heart. You may not like them, but we sure do. They are an extension of us. If you don't like them, in essence, you don't like us. WE ARE THE UNION.

Again, I ask you to answer the question, do you believe the company would never lie to you?

Respectfully

 

[x402]

Your comment about the BRK reports does beg the question: why did the union not suggest its own auditor?

They will only let us look at the numbers they want. Not everything we want to see. So who's hiding information and dragging their feet. WE WANT THIS DONE, can we be any clearer about this. Netjets makes money EVERY DAY on the old contract. Wake up.

 

[I-R-DXR]

You know what - I must say thanks.

Thanks for the honest answer with no flames. It DOES mean a lot.

Let me say again I have never been against a fair wage. Im just pro my job.

Again, I ask you to answer the question, do you believe the company could never lie to you?

Companies lie all the time - you bet.

Let me be honest here folks. Im not under paid. Since the mass influx in DXR schools (also the short course) and 9/11 finding a good DXR job is hard to find.

Average pay for me is around 11.00 an hour. Thats WITH a union.

I just request you lay off the STMFD postings. Thankyou

.

 

[PseudoName]

Hey, NJA guys....Since the majority of corporate aviation knows you will NOT get close to what you are DEMANDING, here is some info you will find helpful in the coming months.

=======================

www.truck-driver.net

JOB SECURITY-OTR Truck Drivers
The outlook for the trucking industry is excellent. There is a shortage of drivers in general and over-the-road drivers particularly. With a good CDL Class A, job security in the future is virtually assured. Individual trucking companies that bankrupt stem from bad management, not lack of business.

TYPES OF TRUCKING

There are three types of trucking:

(1) Local: involves mostly loading and unloading at local businesses. Pay is usually hourly and drivers are home every night. Long days are typical (8-10 hours). An example of a driver is a tanker service that deliver gasoline.

Local drivers may only need a Class B CDL to drive such things as UPS delivery trucks, break trucks or dump trucks.

(2) Over-the-Road <OTR>: delivering freight in all or part of the 48 states and Canada. Pay is usually by the mile, with 2,500 miles per week a reasonable expectation. Drivers are limited driving/working 70 hours in 8 days, with a maximum 10 hour work session before an 8 hour break. More money is made when less loading/unloading is required (no touch freight), freight is point-to- point rather than multiple stop and traffic lanes avoid congested areas like New York City. Drivers are away from home an average of 1-4 weeks.

Additional terms in OTR trucking a regional (a limited running area like the southeastern states), dedicated (same run or runs day after day) and irregular route (new delivery routes each time). Examples are J.B. Hunt and USA Truck.

(3) Short Haul: companies that haul LTL (less than truckload) freight terminal to terminal (hub to hub). Pay may be mileage based or hourly. Time away from home is usually one or two nights at a time. Some of the best pay and benefits are found in this type of trucking but hiring is very selective and some OTR experience is normally needed. Short haul companies include UPS (doubles on the highway) and Roadway.

HOME TIME

No one should enter the trucking industry without being prepared to sacrifice some home time. Even local drivers may put in over 10 hours a day.

The OTR industry will usually give a driver one full day off for every week (7 days) away from home. This makes trucking a lifestyle, not just a career change.

Most good paying local and short haul companies like at least a year's experience OTR. This demonstrates reliability and skill of prospective drivers. The OTR industry will give an 'out-of-school- new driver a training period with an experienced Driver Trainer to get them started right (period of 4 weeks or more)...local and short haul usually don't have this extra training.

While solo driving companies (one driver in the truck verses a team operation) often allow a rider in the truck, smaller children are normally not allowed to ride.

A rule of thumb is this: if you and your family cannot invest one year of your life with an OTR company, trucking may not be for you.

QUALIFICATIONS

Different companies will have varying policies in all of these areas, but here are some general qualifications:

AGE: to drive out of state, minimum age is 21 years old.

CDL CLASS A: must have this with some endorsements (hazardous materials, doubles or tanker for example) and training from an recognized trucking school.

D.O.T. PHYSICAL: must pass a standard department of transportation physical and a drug screen (illegal drug use is an immediate disqualification). A history of heart trouble, mental illness or back injury often will be additional drawbacks to hiring.

DRIVING RECORD: a good driving record with no more than three moving violations (speeding, running stop sign, etc.) and/or accidents in the last three years is a median qualification, but there is great latitude in this area from company to company (some stricter, some more lenient). A DUI/DWI on the driving record in the past 5 years is normally a disqualification...many companies require 10 years. Reckless driving, leaving the scene of an accident and fleeing a police officer are also strong negatives.

CRIMINAL RECORD: companies crossing the border into Canada may not send a driver with a felony conviction on those runs: Canada will arrest the driver and seize the truck. A Canadian waiver or Ministers Permit must be obtained to legally cross the border.

Drug or theft related crimes are usually immediate disqualifications. Felony convictions in general must normally be at least 10 years old, but many OTR companies will not hire anyone with a felony record at any time.

WORK HISTORY: because of high driver turn-over, particularly in the OTR industry, a stable work history is needed. Long periods at one job and military service are strongly desired by major companies. 'Job hopping' without a good (attached to the application) explanation is usually a disqualification. Trucking companies must call and verify former employers at least 3 years back, so accurate information is vital.

 

[ce750drvr]

DXR,

Ya have to understand..well, let me ask you this.

Have you ever been so ticked off that you can't see straight? I mean you are physically sick to your stomach and shaking because you could just knock the living sh!t out of something because you were that mad?

We are at that point. Time and time again we have been told: "don't worry, the money is there", "you give me this, I will give you that (and it doesn't happen)", "you could have done better", "we want this done too", "we are not making money", blah, blah, blah.

STMD is how mad we are. We have been kicked in the sack so many times we are not going to take it anymore. You don't have to agree with it, but you have to understand it. It is a reality. STMD is an acronym for strike. You fear it, the company fears it, the owners fear it, hell, we fear too. We also have families, mortgages, and car notes. But RTS has made it abundantly clear that he is not going to "give" us anything except for what we take. So we have decided to stand up and take what we feel is FAIR. After all, that is what should be done in life. You can't lay idley by and take what life throws, you try and do what is right by you, take what you can and if you can't, you leave it alone and move to something else. That is what we are doing, taking what we can, if we can't, we will move on.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I am not being egotistical or putting your job down, but the reality of the situation is, our job is not the most important, but it is the most vital to operations. This company would not move without us. If we left, the company would try to operate with vedors (like trying to stop a bleeding major artery with a band-aid) but it would fail. If dispatchers walked, we would have to file ourselves, but the company would still function. Same goes for scheduling, catering, yada, yada, yada. Please, Im not putting you or your job down, it is just that this is our position. We fix the puzzle palace mistakes day in and day out and the owners never know the difference.
However, you guys cant fix ours. It is hard to pull bits and pieces of people from a smoking hole in the ground and put them back together.

You want career people here DXR. You DO NOT want this to be a revolving door for pilots. Experience in the cockpit is insurance for your job more than anything. If we rotate pilots every few years and some newbie lawn darts one in ASE, nobody will have a job. Please be more understanding and supportive of our cause. We want this to be a career, that is why we are asking for AVERAGE pay, we want to stay. We will not, however, if they can't pay us. That is why the STMD is in our vocabulary. If we can't live comfortably with what they pay us, again, why would we stay, thus, why would we care if it stays in business??

 

[Majik]

Hey, NJA guys....Since the majority of corporate aviation knows you will NOT get close to what you are DEMANDING, here is some info you will find helpful in the coming months.

And I bet your mutha is proud of you! What an outstanding woman she must be to have raised a son like you. You're probably a chip off the ol' block. Wish her a happy Mutha's Day from all the NJA pilots.

 

[netjetwife]

The only books that matter--as they tell the WHOLE truth, giving the ENTIRE picture--are the NJ Inc books, which they refuse to open. Instead they hold out the NJA books which have benefited from having the profits moved into NJ Inc. The present MEC/negotiating team are smarter than the last losers (by 90%) we had as "representatives". To put it plainly, our side is no longer falling for any of their tricks.

In a workforce of 2000+ faced with foot dragging (the company clearly gains from stalling-- NOT the pilots WHO haven't had a pay raise in 6 yrs), punitive scheduling, contract violations and insulting offers at the table, it is not terribly surprising that ON THEIR OWN TIME a small number of pilots will show signs of burnout. (STFD is certainly not indicative of the posts of the group.) That said, the NJ pilots continue to receive the highest ratings from the owners, who are VERY satisfied with the professional service the flight crews provide them. Knowing that low morale is a direct byproduct of labor unrest, it is actually surprising that we haven't seen more angry posts. I think that it is because UNION morale is as high as company morale is low.

DXR, I understand that it offends you to see STFD in posts that refer to the place you work. Please also understand that your posts have been offensive as well: unfounded accusations of venegence (again a couple posters AREN'T the whole union); comments of "holding a gun to the company's head" for LEGAL job actions which can ONLY be taken if released by the mediator who feels NOTHING else has worked; and comments that distort the pilots' position--doubling govt assistance/chump change wages will NOT break the NJ bank and cause the company to fold.

I believe that if the pilots were as you are making them out to be, they wouldn't even have BOTHERED to reply to your posts. As has been pointed out, the other employees have no bearing on the outcome; therefore, the fact that pilots are discussing the issues with you is a sign of more respect and concern for fellow workers than you are giving them credit for.

 

[PseudoName]

I was looking at your informational handout posted on the ASAP web site. Boy, you guys sure have brainwashed yourselves. I especially like the Captain salary graph, comparing a NJA Captain salary to the ProPilot avg salary. I got out my 2004 ProPilot survey and compared the actual numbers to what you printed on your handouts.....I didn't think you would stoop to this level.

If you care so much about your customers as your billboards and handouts say you do, then why do you LIE to them when comparing NJA actual salaries to ProPilot averages? Your Union informational handout shows that according to the ProPilot survey, a Captain makes over 100K avg in the Falcon, X, Hawker, C-XL.

NOT TRUE!!!!! You better hope Warren and his crew doesn't come back with the actual numbers to your owners.......the ones you are hoping will back you up in the coming months!

Don't believe me?? Get out an old ProPilot and see for yourself. You are deceiving your owners.

This action shows that your pilot group is NO BETTER than NJA management!

 

[Mach92]

I was looking at your informational handout posted on the ASAP web site. Boy, you guys sure have brainwashed yourselves. I especially like the Captain salary graph, comparing a NJA Captain salary to the ProPilot avg salary. I got out my 2004 ProPilot survey and compared the actual numbers to what you printed on your handouts.....I didn't think you would stoop to this level.

If you care so much about your customers as your billboards and handouts say you do, then why do you LIE to them when comparing NJA actual salaries to ProPilot averages? Your Union informational handout shows that according to the ProPilot survey, a Captain makes over 100K avg in the Falcon, X, Hawker, C-XL.

NOT TRUE!!!!! You better hope Warren and his crew doesn't come back with the actual numbers to your owners.......the ones you are hoping will back you up in the coming months!

Don't believe me?? Get out an old ProPilot and see for yourself. You are deceiving your owners.

This action shows that your pilot group is NO BETTER than NJA management!

Ya missed the part that says 18% of our pilots are on food stamps. I bet your NOT!

 

[netjetwife]

Quoting from the Pro Pilot June 2004 issue which was used for the graph

US Salary Study page 59 Corporate Jet Captain (right hand column)


Citation X.......................123,000

Falcon 2000 ...................120,000

Hawker800XP/1000...........112,000

Citation Excel....................94,000


There are others, both on the handout and in Pro Pilot, but these are the 4 mentioned in PN's post. Do note that on the graph, the XL bar is just under the 100K line. Nor is there any mention of AVERAGE salaries. PseudoName has misread the graph which was based on numbers from the 3rd column NOT the first. It helps to get your facts right BEFORE accusing others of lying. The graph is completely factual--it was done "by the book"--literally!

The pilot who made the graph would undoubtedly agree with one thing PN said in his post--
"Don't believe me?? Get out an old ProPilot and see for yourself."