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Strike Vote Called For at NetJets

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x402 said:
The question should be, " Will Mr Boisture's ego prevent Netjets from going forward as the company it can be?"

That combined with his lack of personal self control and bursts of anger and rage... My guess? Yes.
 
Gulfstream 200 said:
YES I said SCABBING, they work for 1/3 the wages they should. Union bull$hit or not--- thats a SCAB. Hence they have no credibility now.

Define your version of scabbing if you would please.

The definition accepted by all unionized air carriers presently includes the existence of strike picket line to be crossed which, to date, has never materialized on this GA side of the airfield. That makes it hard for NJA pilots to be SCABS unless they were SCABS from a previous airline.

All pilots out there on furlough flying charter or yearning to someday work for any unionized 121 carrier need to remember that in selecting the choice as to whether to cross a NJA picket line and fly NJA owners during a NJA strike. It will affect their future recall rights and hiring potential.

G, you bash NJA pilots for the past 10 years when, in fact, most of us have only been here for the past 5 tops. We are now taking large steps to close that gap between our pay grades. The pay here sucks ass. Period. It's a crap job. Why would you not support us in trying to change that and in the process "raise the bar" for this entire sector of the industry? Do you not want the positive effects that raising of the bar would create on paychecks for thousands of corporate and frax pilots?
 
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Sctt@NJA said:
For what its worth this particular NetJets pilot is disgusted with the unions position on who would be considered a SCAB.

For those not keeping track that would be... any pilot involved with flying a "NetJets transaction"

Not just charter pilots covering our trips, but all of NJI as well...

I can't think of a better way for us to lose all credibility than with this position.

(now I am curious if I will get an "educational PM" for this post)

Scott,

If you have any questions at all please go to one of your MEC members, Stewards, P2P reps or the SPC.

www.njasap.com
 
FLYLOW22 said:
Define your version of scabbing if you would please.

The definition accepted by all unionized air carriers presently includes the presence of strike picket line to be crossed which, to date, has never existed on this side of the airfield. That makes it hard for NJA pilots to be SCABS unless they were SCABS from a previous airline.

All pilots out there on furlough flying charter or yearning to someday work for any unionized 121 carrier need to remember that in selecting the choice as to whether to cross a NJA picket line and fly NJA owners during a NJA strike. It will affect future recall rights and hiring potential.

G, you bash NJA pilots for the past 10 years when, in fact, most of us have only been here for the past 5 tops. We are now taking large steps to close that gap between our pay grades. The pay here sucks ass. Period. It's a crap job as . Why would you not support us in trying to change that and in the process "raise the bar" for this entire sector of the industry? Do you not want the positive effects that raising of the bar would create on paychecks for thousands of corporate and frax pilots?


Good god, raise the bar? You buried the bar years ago.

Get salarys up? You have to at least double yours to get back to the lower side of industry standard!!!!

Wake up man! You set the bar so low you guys actually think you are doing good with your dreams of doubled salarys!!!

WOW!

I already told you what I think a SCAB is. Most of us dont need a Union to define that, its common sense. You SCABS know who you are

Save your threats, read on here...nobody is intimidated and youre losing support real fast..you would be smart to rethink your position.
 
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FLYLOW22 said:
Why would you not support us in trying to change that and in the process "raise the bar" for this entire sector of the industry? Do you not want the positive effects that raising of the bar would create on paychecks for thousands of corporate and frax pilots?

Thats a little fuzzy for me, be specific; What support are you looking for? You seriously want a guy who works for a small 135 outfit to tell his boss that he will not fly a NJA sell-off, something they had routinely done before, and fall on his sword? Specifically, what benefits would he receive in that situation, seeing that he is not a member of any union?
 
FLYLOW22 said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sctt@NJA
For what its worth this particular NetJets pilot is disgusted with the unions position on who would be considered a SCAB.

For those not keeping track that would be... any pilot involved with flying a "NetJets transaction"

Not just charter pilots covering our trips, but all of NJI as well...

I can't think of a better way for us to lose all credibility than with this position.

(now I am curious if I will get an "educational PM" for this post)




Scott,

If you have any questions at all please go to one of your MEC members, Stewards, P2P reps or the SPC.

www.njasap.com


Yep....it only took 92 minutes before you got your 'guidance'. Good luck.
 
Gulfstream 200 said:
Good god, raise the bar? You buried the bar years ago.
I personally did this myself? I think not. We all know where the bar is set and NJA pilots are woefully below that mark. Management made many promises over the years regarding pay which never came true. The money is here... they just want it for themselves. Nothing new. If we continue to drag the bar down, the entire industry will continue to be affected... your W2 as well.

Gulfstream 200 said:
Get salarys up? You have to at least double yours to get back to the lower side of industry standard!!!!
Agreed. Are you in? Help us. We (labor) will all benefit in the long run.

Gulfstream 200 said:
I already told you what I think a SCAB is. Most of us dont need a Union to define that, its common sense. You SCABS know who you are.
SCAB is a Union term. We did need Unions to define SCAB. The defnition of a SCAB is one who crosses an existing picketline for one's own well being. This SCAB phenomenon has been recorded several ways over the years in the form of replacement workers, line crossers from the existing seniority list and even hired charter crews.

Gulfstream 200 said:
Save your threats, read on here...nobody is intimidated and youre losing support real fast..you would be smart to rethink your position.

I think the pilots of NJA would rather try to educate than intimidate. We all stand to gain more together as professional colleugues than divided factions in the same business.
 
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LXJ31 said:
Thats a little fuzzy for me, be specific; What support are you looking for? You seriously want a guy who works for a small 135 outfit to tell his boss that he will not fly a NJA sell-off, something they had routinely done before, and fall on his sword? Specifically, what benefits would he receive in that situation, seeing that he is not a member of any union?


Specific... Let me try here. If I were scheduled to fly a trip during a NJA Pilot strike then I would be sure that it was NOT a NetJets sponsored trip. All you have to do is ask the right questions of your company and of several other outlets available though the various FBO vendors. If I were not satisfied with the answers given then I would hold off on making a few bucks on a charter flight in lieu of not having to worry with the spectre of a SCAB label. This is not an easy situation for the the industry to deal with but it is coming.

What to tell your boss? I would openly ask if they intend to operate NJA trips during a NJA strike. I would offer my objections to flying those trips in a polite way. I would try to emphasize that it might be better to wait until the storm stettles prior to vending for NJA. At least I would have communicated my true feelings to the powers that be. I don't personally believe that the majority of pilots WANT to SCAB. It happens becasue of various pressures (mostly econimic) exerted on labor from management.

Benefits received? A clean SCAB record. A clear conscience. Also a feeling of confidence in knowing that you did your part to protect the careers of the pilots in this industry. If you are looking for some sort of strike pay or tangable item in return I'm afraid you most likely won't find much. Benefits like that come only with Union membership but that's only a couple of Union Cards away if you wish.
 
Hey NJA guys, do you realize that turning the majority of corporate aviators against your efforts? By stating that we will be SCABS when flying your owners on OUR Part 135 certificate flown for Executive Jet Management (NOT NJA), you will have definately defeated any slim chance you had getting a job in the corporate aviation world outside of NJA! Period.

Maybe that doesn't seem important now, but I am sure it will be an issue when you are beating feet on the pavement, holding a sign and not receiving a paycheck!
 
you will have definately defeated any slim chance you had getting a job in the corporate aviation world outside of NJA! Period.

Exactly,
these guys better get everything they want in this new contract because if they follow through with the "SCAB" threat these jokers are gonna have one he!! of a time getting hired by any corporate operators. I dont think they realize that they are pi$$ing alot of people off . If they label everybody "SCABS" and then decide to leave NUTJETS for greener pastures NOBODY is going to hire them. It really is an idiotic position to put yourself in but like I said in an earlier post,less competition for me;) .

Johnny
 
I personally know of a few corporate operators who employ NJA pilots on a contract basis. Within the past week, those guys have "mysteriously" disappeared from the contract pilot list.

It's too bad for those NJA guys. One of those guys was on second year f/o pay, with a family and needed the extra $$ we paid him to fly on his days off.

I wonder if his more senior union buddies are willing to supplement the income he has lost due to their name calling.

.....things that make you go, hmmmm.
 
No one is on second year FO pay. Thanks for playing and get it strait before posting. I believe captain pay is hovering around 8 months. In the next couple days it might drop to 3 months. Waiting and hoping.
 
FLYLOW22 said:
Specific... Let me try here. If I were scheduled to fly a trip during a NJA Pilot strike then I would be sure that it was NOT a NetJets sponsored trip. All you have to do is ask the right questions of your company and of several other outlets available though the various FBO vendors. If I were not satisfied with the answers given then I would hold off on making a few bucks on a charter flight in lieu of not having to worry with the spectre of a SCAB label. This is not an easy situation for the the industry to deal with but it is coming.

What to tell your boss? I would openly ask if they intend to operate NJA trips during a NJA strike. I would offer my objections to flying those trips in a polite way. I would try to emphasize that it might be better to wait until the storm stettles prior to vending for NJA. At least I would have communicated my true feelings to the powers that be. I don't personally believe that the majority of pilots WANT to SCAB. It happens becasue of various pressures (mostly econimic) exerted on labor from management.

Benefits received? A clean SCAB record. A clear conscience. Also a feeling of confidence in knowing that you did your part to protect the careers of the pilots in this industry. If you are looking for some sort of strike pay or tangable item in return I'm afraid you most likely won't find much. Benefits like that come only with Union membership but that's only a couple of Union Cards away if you wish.

You give NJA pilots a bad name. There are many NJA pilots that post here and if they don't start shutting idiots like you up we all will have to assume everyone at NJA agrees with this nonsense. Your scab threats are useless. Stop trying to strong arm helpless 135 charter pilots into losing their jobs. I do think many fractional pilots do look forward to going straight corporate one day. You better hope your few NJA idiots don't turn everyone in 91 land off so bad that you won't want to put NJA on an app or resume. No one in the real world cares about your NJA Teamster scab list. Those crooks tried to come in and unionize us and we collectively told them to take a hike.
Also, don't worry about people crossing to fly QS tails or NJA sell-offs. Your owners are smart enough to figure a way out of their contracts, smart enough how to individually or multi-party sue NJA for charter/jet card supplements or other alternate travel payments, and definately smart enough to shop elsewhere. We have already picked up significant business from NJA owners through share sales, jet card sales and demos.
Be careful who you push away. So far you have been pretty successful at turning off your owners and you are now working on the entire GA community.
 
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FLYLOW22 said:
We are now taking large steps to close that gap between our pay grades. The pay here sucks ass. Period. It's a crap job as . Why would you not support us in trying to change that and in the process "raise the bar" for this entire sector of the industry? Do you not want the positive effects that raising of the bar would create on paychecks for thousands of corporate and frax pilots?

I am sick of you NJA morons trying to act as saviors to the fractional industry. You idiots have been paid crap for a long time and are not raising the bar for anyone. In fact, I work at your 91k competitor and already make the salary you are fighting for. This accomplished with no union. If anything, you are not raising the bar you will be lucky to get up to the rest of our bars. Just because your company sucks stop painting a negative picture for the rest of the fractional industry. That said I do wish you all well in getting a fair contract.
 
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Why exactly are you 135 guys on the fractional board anyway? You have your own board, and you don't see any of us over there interrupting your "NJA pilots suck" circle-jerk.

You all say that our union's definition of what is struck work has turned you against us. Well I don't happen to agree with that definition, but you 135 guys' crappy attitudes and constant bitching about something you profess not to care about is starting to change my mind.

You all certainly sound like a bunch of scabs...
 
Ultra Grump said:
Why exactly are you 135 guys on the fractional board anyway? You have your own board, and you don't see any of us over there interrupting your "NJA pilots suck" circle-jerk.

You all say that our union's definition of what is struck work has turned you against us. Well I don't happen to agree with that definition, but you 135 guys' crappy attitudes and constant bitching about something you profess not to care about is starting to change my mind.

You all certainly sound like a bunch of scabs...



"go to your own board..."

:rolleyes: ...
 
FLYLOW22, I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume from your profile that your career has gone something like this: CFI to regional, to USAir or United, furlough, now NetJets. You've never had the misfortune of working for a rat$hit 135 operator. You said:
What to tell your boss? I would openly ask if they intend to operate NJA trips during a NJA strike. I would offer my objections to flying those trips in a polite way. I would try to emphasize that it might be better to wait until the storm stettles prior to vending for NJA. At least I would have communicated my true feelings to the powers that be.
Now let me give you the answer that 99% of the boss's will give the pilot who raises these concerns. He will say, in a polite way: "You have two options: Fly the trip or find a new job".

Charter is a cutthroat industry, and the owner of a charter company sure as hell isn't going to turn down the revenue just so you can improve your financial condition. They don't care. Their bills still have to be paid. And when you go on strike and they're able to pad their bank accounts, that's what they're going to do. That's just the way it is. That is the "character" (and I use that term loosely for a lot of them) of people who run charter companies.

Now THAT is reality in the 135 charter world. I hate to sound so harsh, and I'm not going to call you an idiot like some other people have; I just don't think you understand how it works because you've never been there.

It's been asked before, and I'll ask it again: Are you going to pay this pilot's bills when he gets fired for fighting your fight? Is he going to get a preferential interview with NetJets when you go back to work after a strike?

If the answer is no, well, you better get your union leadership educated and under control.

johnny taliban said:
It really is an idiotic position to put yourself in but like I said in an earlier post,less competition for me.

That's what I'm talkin' about! That may be the only good thing to come out of this mess.
 
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