Status of Flight Options Including Fleet Plans

[AceCrackshot]

That's quite a missive you've assembled there, Ace. But I'm a little unclear about something. Are we playing basketball or are we golfing?

One does swing a tennis racquet.

Looking back we should have ********************ing gone ballistic when the B200 Check Airman D.S. got cross-ways with the company and quit.

 

[gunfyter]

Who has More capital invested in the aviation business than Pilots?

Nobody.

The cost of monies spent on University and professional education ... and the BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS it takes to achieve the Skill, Aeronautical knowledge and Judgement it takes to be entrusted with equipment worth tens of millions where Lives and Assets and large sums of liability are at risk if there is a mishap caused by error or mechanical failure....

We are Capitalists.... NOT Socialists.... To he who has invested Much and Risked much go the Rewards....

The Fractionals are Equal Opportunity Employers ... ANYONE is allowed to apply.

What? Don't have a College Degree and an ATP with several thousand hours of Experience? Well then ... get off your butt and get cracking man.

Nobody asks Doctors and lawyers for concessions ... (except insurance companies). They have Capital invested in their professions and so do Pilots. We need a return on this investment.... that EXCEEDS that of people who take other routes which don't involve similar investments of Capital (Monies, Blood Sweat and Tears) in their professions.

All work is honorable work. But I would not expect to make a Doctors salary by studying to be something that takes less investment.

 

[waka]

Again, another "no value added" post. Are you really a pilot? Do you have any knowledge of either the fractional or larger airline industry? Seriously.

No, he isn't. He lost his medical because he eats too many doughnuts and he is suicidal.....as I would be if I had his miserable existence.

I'd fisk your post, but it would be like shooting cows...theres no sport in it.

:laugh:

Perfect!

 

[Fozzy]

Well said Gun.

 

[cjdriver]

That's quite a missive you've assembled there, Ace. But I'm a little unclear about something. Are we playing basketball or are we golfing?

Gotta loved a mixed metaphor, haven't heard any good ones since W left the building.

 

[Fedmagnet]

Probably true, but the simply fact is that last 7 years of aviation history suggests that keeping dying companies around well past their sell-by day, hasn't helped the profession much. This is doubly true when concessions by the pilot group (usually the lions' share of the concessions) don't contain snap-back conditions or the like.

What good is done by saving a few guys careers sitting at the top of heap, if we do by cutting the jobs of everyone at the bottom, and reducing the negotiating position of those who remain?

I don't think that anyone can deny there has been an overall downward racheting effect on pilot pay and wages since 2000 (with the exception of NJ.)

So, if we want the profession to prosper on a twenty or thirty year timeframe, there's going to be pain, and some are going to feel more pain than others. In the case of 1108 and early days of unionization at FLOPS, there was acceptance in principle of a union seniority list. Now, there were a thousand miles between that and some kind of working fractional pilot seniority list that was usable, but we accomplished more on that score with a 30 minute phone call than ALPA did from 1978 onward.

In the specific case of FLOPS, the ball is, and has been, in the FLOPS pilots' court. Too many simply lack the courage to swing. Pain was someone else, as long as the had their left seat in a Hawker or X or large cabin. Now, that's being threatened. I think that Winston Churchill stated it best when he said:

"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."

Thanks for posting the tuff post, it is a tough job but someone has to do it.
Some people are uncomfortable with truths, especially when it will effect their futures.

In case anyone is not famiular with B19, he is just some FNG lawyer paid by Flight Options to come on this board and others to counter the thoughts of people that can think for themselves. His mother must be proud when he comes home and she asks "what did you do today my lawyer son?"

The reason a union came to Flight Options is because it needed one badly. Flight Options had their chance to turn things around but they have cut their nose off to spite their face and try to blame their piz poor management on the Union that they brought in. The company has not changed and the results are becoming more and more evident. The company can not be trusted and requires the Union for any hopes of future survival. The company strongly resisted the idea of a Union and still does.

 

[apache]

Out of sick curiosity, what is the DOH of the last pilot still on the property after this latest furlough?

 

[AceCrackshot]

Who has More capital invested in the aviation business than Pilots?

Nobody.

The cost of monies spent on University and professional education ... and the BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS it takes to achieve the Skill, Aeronautical knowledge and Judgement it takes to be entrusted with equipment worth tens of millions where Lives and Assets and large sums of liability are at risk if there is a mishap caused by error or mechanical failure....

We are Capitalists.... NOT Socialists.... To he who has invested Much and Risked much go the Rewards....

The Fractionals are Equal Opportunity Employers ... ANYONE is allowed to apply.

What? Don't have a College Degree and an ATP with several thousand hours of Experience? Well then ... get off your butt and get cracking man.

Nobody asks Doctors and lawyers for concessions ... (except insurance companies). They have Capital invested in their professions and so do Pilots. We need a return on this investment.... that EXCEEDS that of people who take other routes which don't involve similar investments of Capital (Monies, Blood Sweat and Tears) in their professions.

All work is honorable work. But I would not expect to make a Doctors salary by studying to be something that takes less investment.

100% Accurate. The simply fact is that a company has three groups of people at it...stakeholders, management and vendors. Aviation Employees need to learn that you need to be in one of the groups that matter. Management has used our inherent loyality against us for far too long.

 

[993_Pilot]

Out of sick curiosity, what is the DOH of the last pilot still on the property after this latest furlough?

Not sure of the exact DOH, but our junior pilots are getting close to 8 yrs. with the company.

 

[sky4]

Not sure of the exact DOH, but our junior pilots are getting close to 8 yrs. with the company.

Try 9 years on the junior FLOPS guys.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Complete and utter disrespect of the industry and those in it.

Who has More capital invested in the aviation business than Pilots?

Nobody.

The cost of monies spent on University and professional education ... and the BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS it takes to achieve the Skill, Aeronautical knowledge and Judgement it takes to be entrusted with equipment worth tens of millions where Lives and Assets and large sums of liability are at risk if there is a mishap caused by error or mechanical failure....

We are Capitalists.... NOT Socialists.... To he who has invested Much and Risked much go the Rewards....

The Fractionals are Equal Opportunity Employers ... ANYONE is allowed to apply.

What? Don't have a College Degree and an ATP with several thousand hours of Experience? Well then ... get off your butt and get cracking man.

Nobody asks Doctors and lawyers for concessions ... (except insurance companies). They have Capital invested in their professions and so do Pilots. We need a return on this investment.... that EXCEEDS that of people who take other routes which don't involve similar investments of Capital (Monies, Blood Sweat and Tears) in their professions.

All work is honorable work. But I would not expect to make a Doctors salary by studying to be something that takes less investment.

Gunfyter, you are so full of crap you stink and it shows your complete and utter ignorance of the aviation industry and the people within it.

How many folks in your company hold pilot/dispatch/A & P certificates and made the choice not to fly for a living? The investment in their career is equal to yours and a mistake by many of them can have the same tragic results.

One flight departement I worked for had over 50 dispatchers and 40 of them held at least a private or commercial multi certificate, all of them held college degrees and made the choice to be in support roles rather than fly the line.

I don't want to hear about "sacrifice" because a person has chosen to support you rather than fly beside you. Your time away from home is compensated well and that is part of the fabric of the position you chose. You knew that was part of the game when you chose to fly, so whining about being away from home isn't an option.

Those people that are dedicated to training, customer service, accounting, maintenance or serve in other functions also have college degrees and airman certificates have paid a high price for thier education and are rarely conpensated as well.

All certificate holders, (dispatchers, A&P) also go under recurrent training and have their job on the line on a regular basis just like you guys do. Because you fly and they don't doesn't mean that they have any less reponsiblity to fuel an airplane, plan a flight or ensure that a maintenance repair is done correctly.

Because they made choices or were forced into other choices does not make them any less of a person than any pilot within the company. That is where you and I disagree.

Remove their job function and area of responsibilty and you don't fly either.

 

[wacoflyr]

Get off the horse, B19. Did you seriously suggest that a line guy has the same level of responsibilities as a PIC? Did you really just do that? Even a dispatcher, in a very serious job, sits comfortably at his or her desk while the pilot that he/she just dispatched descends through snow to a contaminated runway on a dark night with a family of six drowsing in the back. Remember the regs? The PIC is the final authority. Has the final responsibility. And also happens to be on the sharp end of a multi-million dollar spear. Come back down here, B19. You don't belong in the clouds. Earth is waiting.

Wacoflyr

 

[993_Pilot]

Try 9 years on the junior FLOPS guys.

8 years with the company / in their ninth year = same thing.

 

[fischman]

One flight departement I worked for had over 50 dispatchers and 40 of them held at least a private or commercial multi certificate, all of them held college degrees and made the choice to be in support roles rather than fly the line.

Did they have gold seals on their CFI's too?

"departement" Honestly???

 

[William Holiday]

Top 3 most dangerous jobs.

1) Fisherman

2) Pilot

3) logger

I don't see any other aviation type job on the list.

 

[wacoflyr]

Two of those three have good reality shows on Discover. I want a reality show!

 

[solafide]

Come on, twad. We all have the utmost confidence that you'll back up that intelligent statement of yours.

 

[52Vincent]

What's the current situation at Flight Options? Are pilots still being furloughed? How many are on the street?

What about the addition of Phenom 300s? Is that still the plan? Will the Phenoms basically end up replacing the Beechjets on a one-for-one basis? How soon are the Phenoms expected to arrive and how many in 09? Any updates? The Phenom 300 looks like a pretty solid performer (certainly far better than the Beechjet).

I guess the long-term future fleet composition would be Legacies, Citation Xs, Hawker 800XPCs and Phenom 300s - right? Let's hope the economic situation improves for all fractionals so that hiring begins again (I am assuming in 2010).

I am attempting a hijack of this thread back to its origin. Read on!!



RICHMOND HEIGHTS -- Flight Options is pinning its fortunes on a sleek Brazilian-made jet and competitive pricing to steer out of an earnings plunge that's forced the furlough of more than half its pilots and administrative staff. The Cuyahoga County Airport-based fractional jet company hosted a visit Friday of Embraer's new Phenom 300, a super-light jet in the final stages of development.
Flight Options has ordered 100 of the luxury jets and will take delivery of them over 10 years. It will get its first Phenom 300 in November, a second in December and 16 more next year.

Meanwhile, Flight Options is touting its JetPASS program that lets customers buy a block of time in its fleet, instead of owning an equity share of an airplane. Other fractional jet companies have programs similar to JetPASS. But Flight Options says it can undercut their pricing by 20 percent because it doesn't use a middleman broker to sell the hourly packages.
"These are the two ways in which we will survive and thrive in this economy," Chief Executive Mike Silvestro said.
Silvestro didn't say when the privately-held company will be able to rehire pilots and other employees. The goal is to do so as soon as business recovers.
Demand has dropped sharply from corporate fliers and wealthy individuals who buy ownership shares in private jets. The slump has pushed Flight Options into at least four rounds of pilot furloughs and administrative staff cuts.
As recently as 2007 Flight Options had 1,500 employees. Today it has 670, including 330 pilots. Its Cuyahoga County presence has dropped from 500 employees to 225.
The founder of Flight Options is taking a bigger stake in the company as part of the bid to stabilize operations.
Kenn Ricci's Directional Capital and another private equity company in Cleveland, Resilience Capital Partners, have increased their combined share of Flight Options from about 20 percent to 75 percent.
Ricci himself, Silvestro, Chief Financial Office Julie Boland and Chief Operating Officer Chris Herzberg also have increased their investment in Flight Options -- acquiring part of the 25 percent share not owned by Directional and Resilience. The rest of the company is held by H.I.G. Capital. Flight Options didn't disclose further details or dollar amounts.
H.I.G., a Miami private equity operation, was Flight Options' biggest owner until the realignment.
Ricci launched Flight Options in 1998, but left when it was bought by Raytheon Co. in 2001. He returned to Flight Options in his role as chairman of an H.I.G. holding company after parent company H.I.G. bought the aviation services provider.
The head of the pilots' union at Flight Options, Mat Slinghoff, said pilots weren't brought into the loop on the new ownership structure.
"We have put in a detailed request to the company and hopefully we'll get a response from them soon as to what it will be," Slinghoff said in a call from Minneapolis, where he's in contract negotiations. The pilots voted in mid-2006 to affiliate with the Teamsters and have been bargaining for a first contract.
Slinghoff said Flight Options pilots are excited that the firm will be the "launch customer" for the Phenom 300.
The aircraft joining Flight Options' fleet later this year has a range of 2,071 miles, seats up to seven passengers and two crew, and has a per-hour cost of $3,519 when fuel and taxes are included. That compares with hourly costs for other business jets that range from $4,450 for the Cessna Citation CJ3 to $5,689 for the Citation XLS, Flight Options says.
Flight Options' main competitors are Columbus-based NetJets, an enterprise of Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway; CitationShares, a division of Cessna Aircraft Co., based in Greenwich, Conn.; and Flexjet of suburban Dallas.
Silvestro said the Phenom 300 consumes less fuel and has a bigger baggage area and more amenities than comparable jets. Its cruising speed is 518 mph.
A promotional brochure says the plane can handle restrictive airports, take off from high elevations in ski country or short runways in hot conditions, and climb to 35,000 feet in 12 minutes with ease.
Isn't a $750 million outlay -- the combined cost of the 100 jets -- a rash investment with demand so tepid?
"If the airplane wasn't so unique . . . that would be a valid point of view," Silvestro said. "But this airplane is one we feel strongly will have great reception in the market."

 

[johnsonrod]

I am attempting a hijack of this thread back to its origin. Read on!!



RICHMOND HEIGHTS -- Flight Options is pinning its fortunes on a sleek Brazilian-made jet and competitive pricing to steer out of an earnings plunge that's forced the furlough of more than half its pilots and administrative staff. The Cuyahoga County Airport-based fractional jet company hosted a visit Friday of Embraer's new Phenom 300, a super-light jet in the final stages of development.
Flight Options has ordered 100 of the luxury jets and will take delivery of them over 10 years. It will get its first Phenom 300 in November, a second in December and 16 more next year.

Meanwhile, Flight Options is touting its JetPASS program that lets customers buy a block of time in its fleet, instead of owning an equity share of an airplane. Other fractional jet companies have programs similar to JetPASS. But Flight Options says it can undercut their pricing by 20 percent because it doesn't use a middleman broker to sell the hourly packages.
"These are the two ways in which we will survive and thrive in this economy," Chief Executive Mike Silvestro said.
Silvestro didn't say when the privately-held company will be able to rehire pilots and other employees. The goal is to do so as soon as business recovers.
Demand has dropped sharply from corporate fliers and wealthy individuals who buy ownership shares in private jets. The slump has pushed Flight Options into at least four rounds of pilot furloughs and administrative staff cuts.
As recently as 2007 Flight Options had 1,500 employees. Today it has 670, including 330 pilots. Its Cuyahoga County presence has dropped from 500 employees to 225.
The founder of Flight Options is taking a bigger stake in the company as part of the bid to stabilize operations.
Kenn Ricci's Directional Capital and another private equity company in Cleveland, Resilience Capital Partners, have increased their combined share of Flight Options from about 20 percent to 75 percent.
Ricci himself, Silvestro, Chief Financial Office Julie Boland and Chief Operating Officer Chris Herzberg also have increased their investment in Flight Options -- acquiring part of the 25 percent share not owned by Directional and Resilience. The rest of the company is held by H.I.G. Capital. Flight Options didn't disclose further details or dollar amounts.
H.I.G., a Miami private equity operation, was Flight Options' biggest owner until the realignment.
Ricci launched Flight Options in 1998, but left when it was bought by Raytheon Co. in 2001. He returned to Flight Options in his role as chairman of an H.I.G. holding company after parent company H.I.G. bought the aviation services provider.
The head of the pilots' union at Flight Options, Mat Slinghoff, said pilots weren't brought into the loop on the new ownership structure.
"We have put in a detailed request to the company and hopefully we'll get a response from them soon as to what it will be," Slinghoff said in a call from Minneapolis, where he's in contract negotiations. The pilots voted in mid-2006 to affiliate with the Teamsters and have been bargaining for a first contract.
Slinghoff said Flight Options pilots are excited that the firm will be the "launch customer" for the Phenom 300.
The aircraft joining Flight Options' fleet later this year has a range of 2,071 miles, seats up to seven passengers and two crew, and has a per-hour cost of $3,519 when fuel and taxes are included. That compares with hourly costs for other business jets that range from $4,450 for the Cessna Citation CJ3 to $5,689 for the Citation XLS, Flight Options says.
Flight Options' main competitors are Columbus-based NetJets, an enterprise of Warren Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway; CitationShares, a division of Cessna Aircraft Co., based in Greenwich, Conn.; and Flexjet of suburban Dallas.
Silvestro said the Phenom 300 consumes less fuel and has a bigger baggage area and more amenities than comparable jets. Its cruising speed is 518 mph.
A promotional brochure says the plane can handle restrictive airports, take off from high elevations in ski country or short runways in hot conditions, and climb to 35,000 feet in 12 minutes with ease.
Isn't a $750 million outlay -- the combined cost of the 100 jets -- a rash investment with demand so tepid?
"If the airplane wasn't so unique . . . that would be a valid point of view," Silvestro said. "But this airplane is one we feel strongly will have great reception in the market."

Thanks 52Vincent! That Phenom 300 looks like a pretty cool airplane and I am sure the pax will appreciate it. I hope it all works out for you guys - you deserve much better!!!!!

 

[B19 Flyer]

Did they have gold seals on their CFI's too?

"departement" Honestly???

Spelling Nazi again, too bad you have such a hard time with an AFM...

Many of them were ERAU grads with CFII's with a multi-commercial. Choices were made for various reasons when they came out of school. The primary reason they took they pay cut seemed to be they wanted to be home every night so they sacrificed the additional pay flying would have given them.

You seem to underestimate those around you fischman or the efforts and choices they have placed in their careers. Career pilots are not the only ones that have invested emotionally and financially in their careers.