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Status of Flight Options Including Fleet Plans

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That's quite a missive you've assembled there, Ace. But I'm a little unclear about something. Are we playing basketball or are we golfing? :rolleyes:

One does swing a tennis racquet.

Looking back we should have ********************ing gone ballistic when the B200 Check Airman D.S. got cross-ways with the company and quit.
 
Who has More capital invested in the aviation business than Pilots?

Nobody.

The cost of monies spent on University and professional education ... and the BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS it takes to achieve the Skill, Aeronautical knowledge and Judgement it takes to be entrusted with equipment worth tens of millions where Lives and Assets and large sums of liability are at risk if there is a mishap caused by error or mechanical failure....

We are Capitalists.... NOT Socialists.... To he who has invested Much and Risked much go the Rewards....

The Fractionals are Equal Opportunity Employers ... ANYONE is allowed to apply.

What? Don't have a College Degree and an ATP with several thousand hours of Experience? Well then ... get off your butt and get cracking man.

Nobody asks Doctors and lawyers for concessions ... (except insurance companies). They have Capital invested in their professions and so do Pilots. We need a return on this investment.... that EXCEEDS that of people who take other routes which don't involve similar investments of Capital (Monies, Blood Sweat and Tears) in their professions.

All work is honorable work. But I would not expect to make a Doctors salary by studying to be something that takes less investment.
 
Again, another "no value added" post. Are you really a pilot? Do you have any knowledge of either the fractional or larger airline industry? Seriously.

No, he isn't. He lost his medical because he eats too many doughnuts and he is suicidal.....as I would be if I had his miserable existence.

I'd fisk your post, but it would be like shooting cows...theres no sport in it.


:laugh:

Perfect!
 
Probably true, but the simply fact is that last 7 years of aviation history suggests that keeping dying companies around well past their sell-by day, hasn't helped the profession much. This is doubly true when concessions by the pilot group (usually the lions' share of the concessions) don't contain snap-back conditions or the like.

What good is done by saving a few guys careers sitting at the top of heap, if we do by cutting the jobs of everyone at the bottom, and reducing the negotiating position of those who remain?

I don't think that anyone can deny there has been an overall downward racheting effect on pilot pay and wages since 2000 (with the exception of NJ.)

So, if we want the profession to prosper on a twenty or thirty year timeframe, there's going to be pain, and some are going to feel more pain than others. In the case of 1108 and early days of unionization at FLOPS, there was acceptance in principle of a union seniority list. Now, there were a thousand miles between that and some kind of working fractional pilot seniority list that was usable, but we accomplished more on that score with a 30 minute phone call than ALPA did from 1978 onward.

In the specific case of FLOPS, the ball is, and has been, in the FLOPS pilots' court. Too many simply lack the courage to swing. Pain was someone else, as long as the had their left seat in a Hawker or X or large cabin. Now, that's being threatened. I think that Winston Churchill stated it best when he said:

"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."

Thanks for posting the tuff post, it is a tough job but someone has to do it.
Some people are uncomfortable with truths, especially when it will effect their futures.

In case anyone is not famiular with B19, he is just some FNG lawyer paid by Flight Options to come on this board and others to counter the thoughts of people that can think for themselves. His mother must be proud when he comes home and she asks "what did you do today my lawyer son?"

The reason a union came to Flight Options is because it needed one badly. Flight Options had their chance to turn things around but they have cut their nose off to spite their face and try to blame their piz poor management on the Union that they brought in. The company has not changed and the results are becoming more and more evident. The company can not be trusted and requires the Union for any hopes of future survival. The company strongly resisted the idea of a Union and still does.
 
Out of sick curiosity, what is the DOH of the last pilot still on the property after this latest furlough?
 
Who has More capital invested in the aviation business than Pilots?

Nobody.

The cost of monies spent on University and professional education ... and the BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS it takes to achieve the Skill, Aeronautical knowledge and Judgement it takes to be entrusted with equipment worth tens of millions where Lives and Assets and large sums of liability are at risk if there is a mishap caused by error or mechanical failure....

We are Capitalists.... NOT Socialists.... To he who has invested Much and Risked much go the Rewards....

The Fractionals are Equal Opportunity Employers ... ANYONE is allowed to apply.

What? Don't have a College Degree and an ATP with several thousand hours of Experience? Well then ... get off your butt and get cracking man.

Nobody asks Doctors and lawyers for concessions ... (except insurance companies). They have Capital invested in their professions and so do Pilots. We need a return on this investment.... that EXCEEDS that of people who take other routes which don't involve similar investments of Capital (Monies, Blood Sweat and Tears) in their professions.

All work is honorable work. But I would not expect to make a Doctors salary by studying to be something that takes less investment.

100% Accurate. The simply fact is that a company has three groups of people at it...stakeholders, management and vendors. Aviation Employees need to learn that you need to be in one of the groups that matter. Management has used our inherent loyality against us for far too long.
 
Out of sick curiosity, what is the DOH of the last pilot still on the property after this latest furlough?

Not sure of the exact DOH, but our junior pilots are getting close to 8 yrs. with the company.
 
Complete and utter disrespect of the industry and those in it.

Who has More capital invested in the aviation business than Pilots?

Nobody.

The cost of monies spent on University and professional education ... and the BLOOD SWEAT AND TEARS it takes to achieve the Skill, Aeronautical knowledge and Judgement it takes to be entrusted with equipment worth tens of millions where Lives and Assets and large sums of liability are at risk if there is a mishap caused by error or mechanical failure....

We are Capitalists.... NOT Socialists.... To he who has invested Much and Risked much go the Rewards....

The Fractionals are Equal Opportunity Employers ... ANYONE is allowed to apply.

What? Don't have a College Degree and an ATP with several thousand hours of Experience? Well then ... get off your butt and get cracking man.

Nobody asks Doctors and lawyers for concessions ... (except insurance companies). They have Capital invested in their professions and so do Pilots. We need a return on this investment.... that EXCEEDS that of people who take other routes which don't involve similar investments of Capital (Monies, Blood Sweat and Tears) in their professions.

All work is honorable work. But I would not expect to make a Doctors salary by studying to be something that takes less investment.

Gunfyter, you are so full of crap you stink and it shows your complete and utter ignorance of the aviation industry and the people within it.

How many folks in your company hold pilot/dispatch/A & P certificates and made the choice not to fly for a living? The investment in their career is equal to yours and a mistake by many of them can have the same tragic results.

One flight departement I worked for had over 50 dispatchers and 40 of them held at least a private or commercial multi certificate, all of them held college degrees and made the choice to be in support roles rather than fly the line.

I don't want to hear about "sacrifice" because a person has chosen to support you rather than fly beside you. Your time away from home is compensated well and that is part of the fabric of the position you chose. You knew that was part of the game when you chose to fly, so whining about being away from home isn't an option.

Those people that are dedicated to training, customer service, accounting, maintenance or serve in other functions also have college degrees and airman certificates have paid a high price for thier education and are rarely conpensated as well.

All certificate holders, (dispatchers, A&P) also go under recurrent training and have their job on the line on a regular basis just like you guys do. Because you fly and they don't doesn't mean that they have any less reponsiblity to fuel an airplane, plan a flight or ensure that a maintenance repair is done correctly.

Because they made choices or were forced into other choices does not make them any less of a person than any pilot within the company. That is where you and I disagree.

Remove their job function and area of responsibilty and you don't fly either.
 
Get off the horse, B19. Did you seriously suggest that a line guy has the same level of responsibilities as a PIC? Did you really just do that? Even a dispatcher, in a very serious job, sits comfortably at his or her desk while the pilot that he/she just dispatched descends through snow to a contaminated runway on a dark night with a family of six drowsing in the back. Remember the regs? The PIC is the final authority. Has the final responsibility. And also happens to be on the sharp end of a multi-million dollar spear. Come back down here, B19. You don't belong in the clouds. Earth is waiting.

Wacoflyr
 
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One flight departement I worked for had over 50 dispatchers and 40 of them held at least a private or commercial multi certificate, all of them held college degrees and made the choice to be in support roles rather than fly the line.
Did they have gold seals on their CFI's too?:rolleyes:

"departement" Honestly???
 

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