Status of Flight Options Including Fleet Plans

[corpflunkie]

It's clear that you would rather see everybody be unemployed. The union creates the split, not management. It's union greed and fear that split the pilot group, and the union thinking will always preserve the top third and high pay over lower pay and more jobs.

The payroll bucket is the same size, it all depends on how it's split. Smaller portions feed more families.

The union way though is to feed fewer families like kings rather than more families and sustain a reasonable way of life.

B19

There is part of me that sees the good in a union, there is also part that sees the negative. Right now, with people losing their jobs left and right, we do not need to hear more of your "I told you so" attitude.

 

[holden1]

So did FlightOptions get sold back to Ricci today?

 

[GooseHZ]

nice speech there ace

Very good pionts...im doing my part...are you?

 

[ProFracPilot]

In the specific case of FLOPS, the ball is, and has been, in the FLOPS pilots' court. Too many simply lack the courage to swing.

That's quite a missive you've assembled there, Ace. But I'm a little unclear about something. Are we playing basketball or are we golfing?

 

[B19 Flyer]

B19

There is part of me that sees the good in a union, there is also part that sees the negative. Right now, with people losing their jobs left and right, we do not need to hear more of your "I told you so" attitude.

My "told you so" attitude goes along with the statement "be careful what you ask for". It proves my point about how miserable unions make things for pilots and those involved with unions.

The union reach goes far beyond wages and work rules, it changes how a company operates and destroys the fabric of how great companies operate.

Three years ago I made the statements that those bringing the union into FLOPS were going to suffer ongoing turmoil, stagnate the company and not have a contract three years down the road. Nothing would be gained except the pain.

All of that has come true. Yes, I told you so.

 

[B19 Flyer]

Probably true, but the simply fact is that last 7 years of aviation history suggests that keeping dying companies around well past their sell-by day, hasn't helped the profession much. This is doubly true when concessions by the pilot group (usually the lions' share of the concessions) don't contain snap-back conditions or the like.


What good is done by saving a few guys careers sitting at the top of heap, if we do by cutting the jobs of everyone at the bottom, and reducing the negotiating position of those who remain?

I don't think that anyone can deny there has been an overall downward racheting effect on pilot pay and wages since 2000 (with the exception of NJ.)

So, if we want the profession to prosper on a twenty or thirty year timeframe, there's going to be pain, and some are going to feel more pain than others. In the case of 1108 and early days of unionization at FLOPS, there was acceptance in principle of a union seniority list. Now, there were a thousand miles between that and some kind of working fractional pilot seniority list that was usable, but we accomplished more on that score with a 30 minute phone call than ALPA did from 1978 onward.

In the specific case of FLOPS, the ball is, and has been, in the FLOPS pilots' court. Too many simply lack the courage to swing. Pain was someone else, as long as the had their left seat in a Hawker or X or large cabin. Now, that's being threatened. I think that Winston Churchill stated it best when he said:

"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."

The lions share of concessions does not occur with the pilot group. By the time the concessions occur, the company has shed hundreds, if not thousands of non-union jobs and has slashed expenses to the point where there is no more to slash. Union concessions are never done in time to allow the company to maintain the best resources. They happen when the company is faced with bankruptcy and the union realizes that either they need to finally suck it up or a judge is going to throw out the CBA.

Your quote by Churchill is appropriate, but it has nothing to do with unions. It does however reflect the company stance on survival when a union has invaded a company and has beaten a company into submission. Union members don't understand how much they destroy and the pain they cause to innocent bystanders until it's too late. Even then, they whine about concessions that allow them to retain a six figure income while having no compassion for those scraping by at half the pay rate who actually lose their jobs to pay for the union CBA.

 

[brokeflyer]

yup tragic. What we really try to do is after they get fired to pay our massive salaries is go to their houses and shoot their dogs and drown the kitty's.

Then we drink all their beer and p1ss in their hats.

 

[TurboHonda]

That's quite a missive you've assembled there, Ace. But I'm a little unclear about something. Are we playing basketball or are we golfing?

Tennis. 10SNE1?

 

[AceCrackshot]

Very good pionts...im doing my part...are you?

I paid dues. I was on the membership committee and highly vocal during the drive. I was part of a number of special projects on behalf of the negotiating committee.

Frankly, its not my fight anymore. I left. Had I stayed, I would have been furloughed.

But, I really, really, want the FLOPS pilot group to succeed. They deserve a contract as good as NJ. They don't deserve to be violated in order to subsidize the travel habits of the richest 1/4 of 1% of Americans.

But, there will be no white knights. I don't know how many times I heard "Maybe NJ will buy us..." with the thought that somehow, that would fix the problems of the FLOPS pilot group.

The NJ guys practically speaking gave us the script to go by to get a contract. All we had to do was follow it. We could barely get the dues-paying number above 50%, and it hurt us when it counted.

 

[AceCrackshot]

The lions share of concessions does not occur with the pilot group. By the time the concessions occur, the company has shed hundreds, if not thousands of non-union jobs and has slashed expenses to the point where there is no more to slash. Union concessions are never done in time to allow the company to maintain the best resources. They happen when the company is faced with bankruptcy and the union realizes that either they need to finally suck it up or a judge is going to throw out the CBA.

Your quote by Churchill is appropriate, but it has nothing to do with unions. It does however reflect the company stance on survival when a union has invaded a company and has beaten a company into submission. Union members don't understand how much they destroy and the pain they cause to innocent bystanders until it's too late. Even then, they whine about concessions that allow them to retain a six figure income while having no compassion for those scraping by at half the pay rate who actually lose their jobs to pay for the union CBA.

Again, another "no value added" post. Are you really a pilot? Do you have any knowledge of either the fractional or larger airline industry? Seriously.

I'd fisk your post, but it would be like shooting cows...theres no sport in it.