Standby Duty at Flex

[o2bflyn]

Don't cloud the issue - your either in rest or out of rest.

When your in rest, you have no obligation to the company...phone, pager, horn, etc.

Companies are allowed one contact during a rest period without considering it an interuption. Answer, don't answer - it's up to you.

Regardless of what your company assigns (hotel duty, airport standby, flight asignment, etc.) it can't be considered rest.

You have to have 10 hrs, uninterupted rest within a 24 hr period.

Yes, the company can shorten or lengthen any rest period, as long as the above criteria is met. Obviously, 2-way communication is required to do either. Hence, the original question...Do I have to answer the phone?

Answer it, don't answer it - it's up to you.

That about sums it up...well said.

 

[brokeflyer]

Gutshot....I see where what you are saying applies to 91K, but It does not apply to 135.way

They don't know the night before if ill be flying 135 or 91k leg.

They have to assume, correctly, the more restrictive regulation.

You are either on duty or off duty. Waiting for them to call means you are ON duty. Like I said, 135 was supposed to be like this but it really got messed up. That is why you have guys at charter outfits sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring. You are off duty until we call you.

I can remember many times getting the kid off to school, paying babysitter to watch the baby with me cause my wife had to work because they paid crap. Then lying down at 11pm for bed after I paid out $30 for that sitter only to have work call at 1am telling me I have a 14 hour duty day. There is no way that should be legal.

So they fixed it with part 91k. We are either on duty or off duty. They give us 18 hours off, then we are off for 18 hours and that's that. Pager will be turned on at showtime and EVERYONE is then in compliance with the regs.

Some fractionals found 91k too restrictive having to pre-brief crews to get their beauty sleep not realizing it's a safety issue so they just stay part 135 all the way.

 

[gutshotdraw]

They don't know the night before if ill be flying 135 or 91k leg.

They have to assume, correctly, the more restrictive regulation.

Exactamundo

 

[Mike Jenvey]

Just wait until (if? when?) the FAA finally moves to safer Flight Time Limitations (FTLs). Welcome to EU-Ops Subpart Q!!

Across in Europe, we had a big change to FTLs at the end of last year, but this was reliant on a scientific study to confirm or modify some aspects of the FTLs. This doesn't look like good news for some airlines, although there is also the requirement to introduce a "Fatigue Risk Management System" to help mitigate some of the FTL issues.

The general principle of the new FTLs is that the crew member's rest is protected. We used to have similar examples of finish duty at say 1500 local..... & despite a booked show at say 0900 local the next day, after your legal rest, kerbang, the 'phone could go at 0200 local - you had had your "legal" rest, new briefing.......

Now, change of briefing = new minimum rest period (e.g. 10 hrs) prior to the new show time. So, lots of flexibility moved away from the schedulers, so now we sometimes get a 3 - 4 hr show prior to the ETD, in case the plan changes or pax want to go earlier = all legal, as your duty time is running.

 

[BeeDubya]

BeeDub....thanks for posting the reg. I agree with what you are saying. I have never worked for a company that actually require you to answer your phone during rest periods. I am in no way stating that you should answer your phone during a rest period, but I am saying that if you are beyond your 10 hours of rest and are "on call" then you should answer. I see that there can be arguements either way, but those are my personal feelings on the issue.

This is where you have to be careful. From 135.263:
"(b) No certificate holder may assign any flight crewmember to any duty with the certificate holder during any required rest period."

It would seem from this that if you are "on call" -- that there is an expectation that you are available for work should the occasion arise -- then you are no longer in rest. If that's the case, then you could no longer be considered in rest after your required 10 hours, thereby limiting your available duty time. In fact, I would argue that if you are "on call" you are "on duty" and would be rquired to answer.

Also, by FAA interpretation, a short phone call does not necessarily interrupt rest, although it does vis-a-vis some CBAs.

 

[Av8tor]

Flexjet is the only Frac that has a floating rest. I will never understand this. WHY?

 

[LizardEyes]

They can

Because they can and the pilots don't stop them.

 

[bluepost]

This in no different then when the FAA "clarified" the rest rules on reserve....guys use to sit around "rested" until they were called, now they have a strict time window.

The intent of the rules is clear, they want you to be able to plan your rest....also remember....you'll be working 14 hours....that is a crazy amount of time to "work". That is why they want you as rested as possible (not having been up for 7 hours prior to duty start) before your duty period.

Also just because your not falling asleep doesn't mean your not tired or you don't have a serious degrad in capabilities.

 

[Sctt@NJA]

NetJets does not use 91k rest and duty rules. We use part 135 rest and duty rules slightly modified by practice and policy to be clearer and more conservative than the regs.

As a NetJet pilot I can say that we aren't always the best source of information on regs. We know how we do it, but seperating what is law vs. what is NetJets policy can get pretty fuzzy for most of us.

 

[gunfyter]

This becomes the real question, legality, and intrinsically tied to that (by FAA interpretive letter) is what the company expectation of the pilots is. If the pilot can answer or not answer at his/her choosing, it is different than if the pilot is expected to answer (perform duty) if the opportunity arise.

Exactly!

Managements don't like this and there was a 135 ARC going on where they are trying to come up with another plan...

Have seen some of the proposals but not heard what the status is....