Standby Duty at Flex

[glasspilot]

(Head in hand shaking)

Regarding A, how does my company back up flights? Easy...they call me and I...wait for it...ANSWER THE DAMN PHONE!!!!

as to B and C....Your union negotiated a "certain time" that you can sit at an FBO without the other guy or an airplane? Yeah...that's great.
Ummm....glad to see those dues are well spent. Geez, now you're doing B19's job for him if you think sitting for only 3 hours at an FBO with no way to fly even if you wanted to is a good idea.

 

[imacdog]

Sounds like you wouldn't have a very quick response time to recover a flight.

 

[bluepost]

I answer my phone too when I am at the hotel.....when I am on duty, and rested.

Who ever said I/we don't have a problem with 91 rules? But by nature, a 91 pilot doesn't have thousands of customers that may call at any min for a flight or have hundreds of other aircraft that may break and need to be recovered.

I have not sat around an FBO without a crew or plane for as long as I can remember...if it was, it was waiting for a sedan to come pick me up.

Sure, our company could send us to sit at the fbo without a crew or plane, but why would they? Why does your company make you show at the airport with no trips?

NJAs computer automatically schedules back up flights in regions based on flight numbers in that region. So you may be on at 9am till 11am at teb, then takeoff at noon with pax, meanwhile from 11am till 2pm, someone in MMU is sitting hot spare, then gets released to the hotel, and at 2 pm someones lands at HPN and is kept on duty until 6 pm, then released etc. Doesn't happen every day, most times you are either shut off or SENT TO THE HOTEL ON DUTY, while they figure out the next days brief. Why would a company turn you off at 7 hours of duty while you were at the hotel unless they had a trip in 10 hours?

NJA has been operating with PROSPECTIVE rest for almost 4 years, longer when you count the BBJ or the 135 trips prior to 91k. In that time we have been profitable, hired crews, and grown the company. It works quite well.

 

[bluepost]

By the way...last time I broke with pax, some crew "just sitting around an FBO" ferried in to SRQ from RSW already fueled and was airborn 50 min from our original departure time.

This ties in nicely to the other thread on whether NJA is worth the money. We have a customer in OK that has 2 backup aircraft sitting there ready all day, because they average 5 or more flights in and out of that airport every day.

These backup crew were not woken up at 6am after 12 or even 15 hours off, when they were resting for their noon show. They were briefed the night prior, and rested accordingly. They were provided quality meals of thier choice and quantity. This is what NJA customers get with us and I am proud of that.

 

[Flex-ible]

Come on...some of you guys are acting like children. If you have 10 hours of rest and are not in any way fatigued answer your phone. You are on the road anyway, what is the difference if you fly at 0900 or 1500.

If the practice is legal by the regs or contract, if you are not flying fatigued....be a man and go earn your paycheck.

For god sake people......some of you are just pathetic. When you guys are done feeling like you are "screwing the man", you will find out you are just screwing yourself.

Here, Here.

This sounds reasonable, and a balance between being a "company guy" and being "screwing the man". If I got off at 6 pm with a 3 pm show the next day, I will not be answering my phone at 4 am (when the 10 hours are up). But if I am up watching Matlock reruns at 10 am, why would I not answer the phone? If the company needs me, and I say yes, I win in many ways:
- I get out of the "hotel rot" which IMO is only marginally better than "airport rot";
- I get some brownie points with dispatch, that I will cash in on my last day with a request to take the 7 a.m. flight home (they said yes last week!);
- I help ensure my company's success - and thus my job - by meeting a customer's expectations.

Cheers.

 

[glasspilot]

While your company is providing triple protection for flights my company is gaining market share. I think I'll keep answering my phone. G'nite, I'm on rest now...

 

[glasspilot]

Why does your company make you show at the airport with no trips?

That's my point. THEY DON"T!!!!

Because I answer the phone!

Now, I really am going to bed.

 

[brokeflyer]

wow...poor guy. I feel bad when i see that happen.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Glass,

If you are flying Part 91K or Part 135, are briefed for a noon duty report time, they call you at 6 AM (lets say you went off duty 10 hours or more earlier) for an 8 AM takeoff WITH passengers on a Part 91K or 135 flight and you do it, you have just flown an ILLEGAL flight segment. "Manning up" and answering the phone prior to the end of your scheduled rest period for revenue flights is a VIOLATION of the regulations. If you've had 10 hours off and they call you before your scheduled report time to move the jet Part 91 to give to another crew and you answer the phone, then you are fair game. But revenue flights? Ah, no.

 

[Dooker]

Thank you Mr. "I love Management". If you are willing to let them run your QOL like that then fine, by all means go for it, just don't be upset when your partner won't answer.

What, exactly, is the definition of "moderator," anyway, around here? Once you start chiming in on all the issues, don't you, by definition, forfeit that title?

And once you threaten to forward someone's anonymous personal information to the former HR queen at a certain fractional for which you work because of a hilarious spoof post involving said HR queen that you obviously didn't get, doesn't that constitute a breech of moderatorial discretion?

Anyone?

 

[EatSleepFly]

What, exactly, is the definition of "moderator," anyway, around here? Once you start chiming in on all the issues, don't you, by definition, forfeit that title?

And once you threaten to forward someone's anonymous personal information to the former HR queen at a certain fractional for which you work because of a hilarious spoof post involving said HR queen that you obviously didn't get, doesn't that constitute a breech of moderatorial discretion?

Anyone?

Are you kidding me? This is flightinfo. You can't possibly be surprised that mods pick and choose which rules to enforce and on who. This place is a troll-infested joke.

(But like a train-wreck, I just can't help but look sometimes.)

 

[JokerFuel]

In response to the original post, I personally don't believe that the increase in Standby duties at Flexjet are in anyway reflective of the crewmembers answering, or not answering their phones. It's simply a consequence of Flexjet owners lack of demand. The aircraft are crewed, but not flying, thus we see more crew standby.

 

[FastJP4]

Keep in mind too, there are a bunch of furloughed guys getting home rot with no paycheck right now - wishing they were standing by and getting a paycheck.

 

[Club ORD FO]

I dont get why people complain about standby. you get paid to sit in chair and watch TV. Beats doing a trans-con

 

[TurboHonda]

And if they do that, they're out of duty time for you by 7pm. They're shooting themselves in the foot by doing that. By "manning up," as you put it, you let the company have you on the hook for damn near 24 hours at a stretch, because you're making yourself available not only for your duty period, but for much of your rest period beforehand! They get you for free from 5am 'til your normal show time of 2pm. Then you may get a 14-hour shift on top of that. 23 hours of availability for work. Nice.

How do you plan your rest when you could be woken at any time from 5am 'til early afternoon to go to work? As I said in my last message, how is that at all safe?

AKA the "rolling duty day". FLOPS tweaked and fine tuned the concept until it was the mainstay of it's scheduling strategy. That is until the union put a stop to it.

 

[SDCFI]

I dont get why people complain about standby. you get paid to sit in chair and watch TV. Beats doing a trans-con

Same here, until now. Too many people complain about giving their meals away due to poor quality, so instead of working to get better meals they want to get their own food and now we don't get fed on standby anymore. What a crock. And to make it better they don't compensate us for the food we have to get on our own. The company should provide food, or at least the money for food, while we're on duty. Per diem is to cover our meals while we're not on duty.

 

[Duke of Ale]

I do not believe per-diem is for off duty expenses or we would only be paid that during off duty times. If you are on standby from say 10AM til 3PM and the company will not feed you, then at least at my company you are released to eat. And you spend your own money to do so. Otherwise you may have low blood sugar or some other ailment.

 

[o2bflyn]

This is where the legal questions arise. I'll have to find (again) the FAA's interpretive letter, but if a pilot is expected to be available for duty if the occasion arises, then that pilot is not in rest. The pilot could still be in rest if answering the phone and performing company-directed duty is discretionary, then that time could be considered rest. (Also by FAA interpretative letters, a single, short phone call does not break rest, although it violates some CBAs.)

The issue is not so much about whether the pilot answer the phone at 10+01, but if the phone doesn't right at 10 hours and the next flight begins 14+00 after duty end the night before. If the pilot was expected to be availabel for duty at 10+01, then how much duty remains? From what I've seen of the interpretive letters, many 135 companies do not apply rest properly, nor do many POIs (who do not make regulatory interpretations themselves).

I agree that there is not really a clear cut, universal definition of what happens after a phone call after your 10 hours of rest.

I guess in my eyes it boils down to personal choices. I would answer the phone, I believe its the right thing to do.

 

[o2bflyn]

Glass,

If you are flying Part 91K or Part 135, are briefed for a noon duty report time, they call you at 6 AM (lets say you went off duty 10 hours or more earlier) for an 8 AM takeoff WITH passengers on a Part 91K or 135 flight and you do it, you have just flown an ILLEGAL flight segment. "Manning up" and answering the phone prior to the end of your scheduled rest period for revenue flights is a VIOLATION of the regulations. If you've had 10 hours off and they call you before your scheduled report time to move the jet Part 91 to give to another crew and you answer the phone, then you are fair game. But revenue flights? Ah, no.

Unless there is a contract issue here I don't think you are right. At least 135 anyway. The only thing I am not clear on in your example is what time the crew came off duty the flight previous.

If they came off duty at 1930 the night previous, then they are pefectly legal to accept 135 revenue legs. You have 10.5 hours of rest. That is assuming a 0600 phone call.

If they came off duty at 2030, then you are right they would be illegal for 135 revenue legs. You only have 9.5 hours rest.

I am not too familiar with 91K, but under 135 all the regulations spevify is that you have 10 hours of rest preceeding any duty time leading to a 135 flight. 135 regs do not address nor do they care what you were briefed for.

 

[QOL_is_great:)]

Just curious

This is for all the non-NJA pilots (since I know their rules) would you help me out?
You all answer a post with a statement "my company" then proceed to talk about answering or not answering the phone. That's all fine since your passing your saying what you'd do or not do. I ask these questions to ya: why don't you post what company you work for? If you won't list your company then do you have a contract that explains your rest policy? What would you do if you answer the phone and say 'yes' to working, but your fellow crew member doesn't? If you answer the phone at 9.5 hrs. of rest and it's the company; would you tell them to reset your rest period since they interrupted your rest period?
I'd like to hear not for sake of argument, but I am truly curious.