Spirit T/A Details?

[Mike man]

Hey Mike this whole thread and all the others on this topic are pure speculation. We haven't seen the TA. Personally I think we should be patient and let the process run it's course.

Clearly you are involved in the SPA ALPA in some way, or you have buddies that are.

Put out the details...even one detail would be much, much better than what the MEC has put out in the 7 days since they called off the strike.

Here is some breaking news...I bet we will have an A330 pay scale in there.

 

[airlinepilot]

I will be the first to say, it has been verified by the MEC, 3k for Captains and 7k for FO's signing bonus. No retro, No overides (night, international is still same BS). NO MORE PER DIEM FOR OUT AND BACKS!! Pay increase of 10% for Captains, 18% for FO's. $0.20 increase in per diem, no international per diem. Training department keeps their lucrative pay, FO's will always be below Allegiant, JetBlue, Airtran for full length of contract by a longshot. 66 per hour 3 year pay, 4 year 69 an hour!! One single sick bank now. Still have 4 day off between pairings. Reserve has a convoluted system of periods. Senior FO's make out the best. Health care costs increase from 8%-15% depending on situation. No overtime premium pay, straight pay for all hours worked. Did I miss any of the key points of this crap TA? I am sickened to think I put my job on the line for this! Why did we even strike, we were promised pay parity or shut it down! I was ready! So was everyone else. VOTE NO!! This TA is in the "Spin machine" right now, of course they won't let you see it! Get ready for them to sell it to us all. To my fellow pilots: I am sorry we have let you down and I am embarrassed over this TA! VOTE NO!

If this proves to be true then it would explain why the MEC has been so quiet! What is the current FO pay scale?

 

[SMcC]

Clearly you are involved in the SPA ALPA in some way, or you have buddies that are.

Put out the details...even one detail would be much, much better than what the MEC has put out in the 7 days since they called off the strike.

Here is some breaking news...I bet we will have an A330 pay scale in there.

I am just a rank and file member, but I have faith in our MEC.
I think we all should wait until we see it in black and white before judging it yay or nay.

...by the way every ALPA member, SPA or other is involved.
I have no details. Only the MEC has details, which they are preparing to make available to all of us. It is no small task.

 

[Mike man]

... It is no small task.

Yes it is...let me show you an example (I'll use the rumors for an example):

1. log in to SPA Fast Read maker

2. type some highlights (see example below)

Spirit TA Rumors

Dear Fellow Pilots...

Blah, blah, blah...

Here are some highlights:

• 5 year contract
• $3,000 signing bonus for Captains
• $7,000 signing bonus for F/O's
• 8% 401(k) match rising to 9% at DOS+4
• $2.00 per diem rising to $2.25 at DOS+4
• Pay scales below

3. proof read

4. press "SEND"

That took me 1 maybe 2 minutes...the entire TA has been agreed to by both sides, there is no reason not to publish highlights.

Unless one of two things happened last week in the negotiations room:

1. Company came in a said if you don't agree to this we are closing shop.

-or-

2. There is something really, really big in the works (2 airplanes a month starting in August, A330's in December, Southwest is buying us, etc)...here are the details and you must keep them secret, please sign this and we will move forward quickly.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

After reading these details, I have to urge a yes vote.

This is a win-win contract. It keeps the pilots at regional airline turbo-prop pay, and keep the rest of the money flowing where it belongs, the executive suite.

Vote yes!

(If you find any no voting heretics, just tell them that uncle Frank endorsed the TA to help convince them)

God I love it when you chime in Frank!!! :beer:

 

[lostplnetairman]

It's released. I'm off to read 186 pages....

 

[Chairman]

Wow no retro! That will sure rush them back to the table for the next contract!

 

[Benjamin Dover]

Well, if the Spirit pilots aren't happy with the TA, you vote it down, go back to the mediator, and go from there. One would hope that the pilots of Spirit made it clear to their MEC as to what their expectations were, who then directed the negotiators, who then brought back to the MEC what the pilot group demanded.

Maybe you guys got an acceptable contract and they're just working on final language before they release it. That could take several days if there were a lot of areas of the contract negotiations that were open with no final language before that final agreement was reached.

ual driver,

How did such solidarity work at UAL when you voted on that POS concessionary contract? Sure United set the bar in 2000, but you also caved big time after bk and lowered the bar for all of us. Sure the gun was to your head, but your contract undid decades of industry gains in much more than pay - your give backs in rigs and work rules were unbelievable. And codeshare??

You are pretty quick to give the Spirit guys advice on "how it's done." Maybe the best advice from experience would be "easier said than done."

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Your MEC must have learned something from Corporate to settle for this.

Now it is in the hands of the pilot group to decide.

That was what I was thinking.

 

[lostplnetairman]

It's looking pretty good as I read it.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

It's looking pretty good as I read it.

Will someone PLEASE post some details. Any details.

 

[Lear70]

Give me a day or two, I just got it,,,

So far it looks a lot like AirTran's CURRENT CBA, pay rates included, with COLA adjustments moving forward for the next several years. I'll post some updates probably tomorrow if I don't get called to fly, I'm exhausted and going to bed for the night.

 

[ualdriver]

ual driver,

How did such solidarity work at UAL when you voted on that POS concessionary contract? Sure United set the bar in 2000, but you also caved big time after bk and lowered the bar for all of us. Sure the gun was to your head, but your contract undid decades of industry gains in much more than pay - your give backs in rigs and work rules were unbelievable. And codeshare??

You are pretty quick to give the Spirit guys advice on "how it's done." Maybe the best advice from experience would be "easier said than done."

You mean the concessionary contract "negotiated" in bankruptcy? Yeah, you're right. Our ALPA negotiators should have walked into the courtroom, flipped the judge and Tilton the bird, dropped trou, pinched a 3 coiler on the floor, and walked out. That would have showed them who's boss!! Had we just not "caved" (your words), I'd still be making $220K/year with a pension. If only UA ALPA would have hired you as a consultant!! All would have been saved and the Chapter 11 process subverted!! You broke the code, Ben. Everybody knows (except us dumb legacy guys who got dragged through the bankruptcy process) that all a pilot group has to do is not "cave" and you can have anything you want! He11, if we were only 1/2 as tough as you, we could have negotiated raises!!

 

[lostplnetairman]

Yes, the steps were removed and years of service were retained with the along with the DOS+ wage increases. The 401(k) match was retained, the 4 days off between trips was retained, the Pref Bidding was kept out, the health insurance increase goes from 10% to 7%. The pick up of open time at 150% goes away, but the committee figured that when the company could not staff trips, they would negotiate it back in an LOA really quickly.

Kudos to the negotiating committee!

 

[Lear70]

I noticed the 150% open time override went away... that's going to aggravate some folks. I bet there's quite a few who supplement their income like that by bidding min credit then picking up open time to bump their take-home by 10-15% monthly.

You'll have to get everyone on the same page to not pick up open time during peak times to incentivize the company to negotiate it back. Better hope your NC is correct on that gamble...

I'm NOT saying it's a bad T.A., compared to what you had, still have to look at the entire package (and I don't have to live with it, just making sure I understand it for application of how it applies to AirTran's upcoming battle). There's always give and take, your membership is who has to like it, but it's definitely not on par with what I expect to see in AirTran's next T.A.

 

[lostplnetairman]

The 150% will come back in a LOA when no one picks up open time.

This is a good move!

 

[boomlrd]

The 150% will come back in a LOA when no one picks up open time.

This is a good move!

You are not credible, you are a troll, you are going on any Spirit TA thread and hyping it up as a United 2000 contract. I have read all 186 pages, it is a concessionary contract. You claim to not work here, please go away.

 

[lostplnetairman]

Huh? Would you please come and say that to my face?

You have no credibility as you say I claim not to work at NK when I do and probably have for longer than you have.

 

[boomlrd]

Spirit TA
https://crewroom.alpa.org/SPAMEC/Portals/514/Draft-Full Contract.pdf
Hurry and download, they claim it is only up temporarily.

 

[relief tube]

To all Spirit Pilots: Thank you for standing up for our profession. Its about time someone had the courage to take a stand. Hopefully those of us at Airtran who are most likely next will show as much unity and resolve as you guys did and begin to restore some of the pay and benefits that I thought this job entailed when I signed on 10 years ago. My hat is off to you.

With that said, are there no details of any kind to put out nearly a week after returning to work? If not, when are you being told that you may have something to put to a vote?

Restore? How bout seeing the TA's deets before saying that the bottom of the barrel national carrier is doing any "restoring".

 

[boomlrd]

Huh? Would you please come and say that to my face?

You have no credibility as you say I claim not to work at NK when I do and probably have for longer than you have.

How old are you? You are on APC saying the same thing about saying it to your face? Just keep interning at headquarters, one day you will understand. I pray I never have a guy like you as my FO.

 

[Lear70]

Restore? How bout seeing the TA's deets before saying that the bottom of the barrel national carrier is doing any "restoring".

I think he was talking about what AirTran pilots will do in the upcoming T.A., not what is in this Spirit T.A.

At least, that's how the sentence deconstructs. Could be wrong; it's happened before...

Moderator hat on:

Moderator reviewed. The link stays up until we have an official Spirit MEC request to remove the link. It doesn't violate any T.O.S. of Flightinfo, and we would only remove it as a COURTESY to the Spirit MEC, with an official request to do so.

Moderator hat off:

That said, it's likely up on APC as well, so trying to put that cat back in the bag is a lost battle in all likelihood... It was never going to stay quiet for long.

 

[lostplnetairman]

I mean it. Say it to my face. I've probably been at NK longer than you've been flying--or at least that's the way you present yourself. It's a good thing the public doesn't see the way you post and present yourself. You do disservice to our company young person.

 

[DonVerita]

So far it looks a lot like AirTran's CURRENT CBA, pay rates included...

One must keep in mind that AirTran's current contract was negotiated 10 years ago.

 

[tomgoodman]

Labor Hall of Fame

Our ALPA negotiators should have walked into the courtroom, flipped the judge and Tilton the bird, dropped trou, pinched a 3 coiler on the floor, and walked out.

:laugh: That would not have achieved a better contract, but those guys would have become immortal legends.

 

[ualdriver]

:laugh: That would not have achieved a better contract, but those guys would have become immortal legends.

Oh yeah, there would have been book deals, speaking engagements, and visits to Leno, Letterman, and Conan. Had that happened, however, Mesa would also be flying our 747's right now

 

[Kenney G]

Years of Service DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4
1 64.65 64.65 65.94 99.62 101.62
2 96.64 96.64 98.57 119.49 121.88
3 104.46 104.46 106.55 124.04 126.52
4 108.14 108.14 110.30 128.78 131.35
5 115.51 115.51 117.82 133.68 136.35
6 117.65 117.65 120.00 138.78 141.56
7 119.74 119.74 122.13 143.73 146.60
8 133.68 139.16 141.94 147.73 150.68
9 135.69 142.27 145.12 152.15 155.20
10 137.73 145.44 148.35 156.72 159.86
11 140.53 149.10 152.08 161.43 164.65
12 143.30 152.84 155.90 166.27 169.60
13 146.09 156.61 159.74 171.25 174.67
14 148.90 160.44 163.65 176.40 179.93
15 151.67 164.33 167.62 181.68 185.32

First Officer Pay Rates
Years of Service DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4
1 38.50 38.50 38.50 38.50 38.50
2 61.31 66.22 67.54 70.63 72.05
3 66.38 71.69 73.12 76.21 77.73
4 71.39 77.10 78.65 82.22 83.86
5 76.35 82.45 84.10 88.19 89.96
6 78.77 85.07 86.77 93.57 95.44
7 80.77 87.23 88.98 97.97 99.93
8 82.60 89.21 90.99 101.16 103.19
9 83.19 89.85 91.64 104.13 106.21
10 84.22 90.96 92.78 107.13 109.27

 

[n757st]

DOS +4 fo rates barely catch up with jetBlue current rates... just sayin

Top end DOS +4 looks good though.

 

[Skippy]

The 150% will come back in a LOA when no one picks up open time.

This is a good move!

no it wont-- : check out th enew hire pay-- embarassing: 1750 awesome--- they can be overstaffed with fo's cheaply now

D. Training Pay​

1. New Hire Training Pay
During initial new hire training and prior to release to the line, the pilot shall receive a
monthly salary of one thousand dollars ($1,000) and monthly expenses of seven
hundred and fifty dollars ($750.00) prorated on a daily basis for a partial month. If,
“through no fault of his own”, a pilot does not finish initial new hire training or is not
released to the line within 90 days of his date of hire, he will be paid in accordance
with the provisions of Section 4.A. and per diem as per Section 5.B.The term
“through no fault of the pilot’s own” shall not include actions by the pilots such as:​

“No showing” for training events,“failures” that elongate the process, additional

 

[Draginass]

Pathetic. Another ALPA giveaway wrecking whats left of the profession.