Spirit T/A Details?

[Crzipilot]

Don't think that says "new hire" pay, think it's pay while in training prior to being released to the line???? As it says you will be paid via section 4, if training takes longer than 90 days, through no fault of the pilot. then he'd goto first year pay, though not much better. 38.50 / 72hr.

 

[Whine Lover]

Fun with numbers:

Frontier / JetBlue - Airbus 10 yr. Captain - $ 130,800 avg. annual guarantee

Frontier / JetBlue - Airbus 5 yr. F/O - $ 75,540 avg. annual guarantee


Spirit ( new contract ) - Airbus 10 yr. Captain - $118,998 annual guarantee

Spirit ( new contract ) - Airbus 5 yr. F/O - $ 65,966 annual guarantee






YKW

 

[silverfish]

I haven't read the TA and dont plan to, but if these numbers are correct, why would your MEC sign off on that?

Fun with numbers:

Frontier / JetBlue - Airbus 10 yr. Captain - $ 130,800 avg. annual guarantee

Frontier / JetBlue - Airbus 5 yr. F/O - $ 75,540 avg. annual guarantee


Spirit ( new contract ) - Airbus 10 yr. Captain - $118,998 annual guarantee

Spirit ( new contract ) - Airbus 5 yr. F/O - $ 65,966 annual guarantee






YKW

 

[scarlet]

below pay and lose 150% opentime....4-6 capt pay rates joke! Scope huge bulletholes in it. The 4 days off between trips is nice. There are some nice things.


If you get a pay raise but lose 150% (which used to supplement a little more money) and the 150% goes away you really did not get any more money.

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

First Officer Pay Rates
Years of Service DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4
1 38.50 38.50 38.50 38.50 38.50

Mmmmm. New hires. Breakfast of ALPA Champions.

 

[BigMeat]

Really hope you guys vote no. Shame on alpa. F U Prater!!!

 

[jonjuan]

First Officer Pay Rates
Years of Service DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4
1 38.50 38.50 38.50 38.50 38.50

Mmmmm. New hires. Breakfast of ALPA Champions.

No kidding. Combined with new hire training pay, a year one F/O is right around CAL year one pay. With most new hires these days older and with families, how many actually think this is right? Just like giving regionals flying, Who cares, it doesn't affect me."

 

[flygirlqt]

I really feel for the Spirit pilots because this is shaping up to be another ALPA screw job.

 

[jonjuan]

Airtran management now has another labor cost tool to use as leverage in negotiations. With the labor savings relative to their competition, Spirit management can now continue to provide deep discounts to passengers which will slowly, but methodically take business and marketshare away from the other LCCs (and even Majors). Just wait to see the pricing pressure placed on the rest of the industry in a few years as Spirit doubles/triples in size. I'll bet they make more than $100MM/year for themselves over the next few years.

 

[samballs]

Another ALPA failure.

 

[DonVerita]

Airtran management now has another labor cost tool to use as leverage in negotiations. With the labor savings relative to their competition, Spirit management can now continue to provide deep discounts to passengers which will slowly, but methodically take business and marketshare away from the other LCCs (and even Majors). Just wait to see the pricing pressure placed on the rest of the industry in a few years as Spirit doubles/triples in size. I'll bet they make more than $100MM/year for themselves over the next few years.

Probably not. Our negotiators are very quick to point out that Spirit is not a Major airline. They are a National airline. Therefore it's like comparing apples vs. oranges. Our negotiators concentrate on our peer group, which is Delta, Southwest, JetBlue, Alaska.

Furthermore, Spirit's competition with AirTran on our routes is approximately 1 or 2%.

If Spirit should triple in size and actually become a Major, then they would become comparative. Their next contract in 5 years would then have to reflect that change. Until then, AirTran management has no leg to stand on in this regard.

 

[Whine Lover]

Another ALPA failure.

You mean this is Tim Martens fault?

Because, "Tim is ALPA".

I'm just sayin'...


YKMKR

 

[Whine Lover]

never mind....



YKW

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

No kidding. Combined with new hire training pay, a year one F/O is right around CAL year one pay. With most new hires these days older and with families, how many actually think this is right? Just like giving regionals flying, Who cares, it doesn't affect me."

Ya know, they're practically college interns, those newhires. And we all know that interns aren't typically paid. . .

Nothing like voting a paycut (year over year) for those who can't vote. Contract? Try Ponzi Scheme.

 

[tomgoodman]

Honest questions

I'm in no position to evaluate the TA, but if the Spirit pilots got a bad one, people will certainly wonder why. They should have been in a perfect position: complete shutdown, profitable company, and no fed interference. Will any pilot group ever have a better opportunity for significant contract improvements? Were there some "special circumstances" at work in this case?

 

[Mike man]

I'm in no position to evaluate the TA, but if the Spirit pilots got a bad one, people will certainly wonder why. They should have been in a perfect position: complete shutdown, profitable company, and no fed interference. Will any pilot group ever have a better opportunity for significant contract improvements? Were there some "special circumstances" at work in this case?

ALPA really messed up!

I just took a dump and that looked much better than this TA

 

[SLOTH]

ALPA = Another Lame Pay Agreement?

 

[say again]

Where are our ALPA blowhards Rez and PCL??

 

[Jiminmem]

Was this worth striking for? Just asking, what were they originally offering?

Parts look all right, nothing great though

 

[PCL_128]

Where are our ALPA blowhards Rez and PCL??

Right here. This is a decision for the Spirit pilots to make, so I didn't want to jump in too much. But since you asked, I think the SPA MEC and NC did a great job and achieved significant improvements for their pilots. Is it an Alaska or Hawaiian TA? Of course not. Spirit is a niche carrier with a few dozen airplanes. You can't compare them. At the end of this agreement, Spirit will likely be 2-3 times bigger than they currently are, and they will be in a position to seek improvements comparable to other major airlines. But right now, expecting Alaska rates at a small national carrier is not realistic. I predict that it passes by at least a 2 to 1 margin.

Good job to the SPA reps. You guys put up a great fight, and made huge improvements for your pilots.

 

[Mike man]

I think the SPA MEC and NC did a great job and achieved significant improvements for their pilots.

You obviously have not seen the TA then.

...and made huge improvements...

now we all know you have not seen the TA

I predict that it passes by at least a 2 to 1 margin.

I agree, Spirit pilots will pass on the TA...2 to 1

 

[say again]

Right here. This is a decision for the Spirit pilots to make, so I didn't want to jump in too much. But since you asked, I think the SPA MEC and NC did a great job and achieved significant improvements for their pilots. Is it an Alaska or Hawaiian TA? Of course not. Spirit is a niche carrier with a few dozen airplanes. You can't compare them. At the end of this agreement, Spirit will likely be 2-3 times bigger than they currently are, and they will be in a position to seek improvements comparable to other major airlines. But right now, expecting Alaska rates at a small national carrier is not realistic. I predict that it passes by at least a 2 to 1 margin.

Good job to the SPA reps. You guys put up a great fight, and made huge improvements for your pilots.

I figured you'd say something to this nature. Sadly, you actually believe what you write.

 

[gt1900]

Is it an Alaska or Hawaiian TA? Of course not. Spirit is a niche carrier with a few dozen airplanes. .

I hate to say this again. But you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. There isn't a bigger "niche" carrier then Hawaiian and they have almost the same number of planes as Spirit.... So why is it Ok for Hawaiian to get a good contract, but no Spirit? Sometimes you really scare me. I think you actually believe the rubish that comes from your mouth.

 

[jonjuan]

I hate to say this again. But you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. There isn't a bigger "niche" carrier then Hawaiian and they have almost the same number of planes as Spirit.... So why is it Ok for Hawaiian to get a good contract, but no Spirit? Sometimes you really scare me. I think you actually believe the rubish that comes from your mouth.

LOL-no kidding. They made $100MM last year!

 

[pipejockey]

I am yet again in total shock at another POS TA that was supposed to be raising the bar. Pilots from a profitable company FINALLY grow the ba**s needed and along with a reasonable administration in the White House, engage in self help, and what do they get for it? NOTHING!!! New hire pay rates that actually WENT DOWN!!! And will still be less 4 years from now than they are today! A pay structure that doesn't even come close to JB's pay structure for A320 pilots, and BARELY keeps up with JB 190 rates. I think management must have drugged your negotiators, because no one in their right mind would sign off on this! Another win for management! They make such a demand for concessions right off the bat, and then when they offer something that is similar to what you currently have, everyone bites. I think it's time ALPA starts hiring full time negotiators like management has and all they do is negotiate contract after contract for airline after airline, because these people they currently have at the individual airlines MEC are dumber than posts!! These legal eagles that management has at their disposal are making total fools of these pilot negotiators.

How does ALPA assess us for a pilot groups strike pay? I was in full support of being assessed even more than they had planned. After all, the contract a pilot group gets after striking will better the profession for all of us right? Well, I'll be damned if I will let one red cent of my hard earned money go to anyone that votes yes on this bucket of vomit they call a TA!!!

 

[crxpilot]

and now you know why there were no "highlights" ahead of time...........

 

[Lear70]

I don't think it'll pass 2 to 1, I think it's going to be close. Very close.

I hate to see pay rates that rob from new-hires to fund other pay brackets. In all likelihood, Spirit has an aggressive growth plan for the upcoming up-swing in the economy and the aviation industry, and management will benefit greatly from these LOWER new-hire rates.

In addition, only half the pilots will really see the best of those rate increases - there will be very few, if any, 5+ year F/O's until the end of the NEXT round of negotiations (the amendable date plus the 3-5 years it will take to negotiate a new agreement). Similar story for the CA rates.

There's some other good things in the T.A., but I'm disappointed for the Spirit pilots overall. Getting ironclad Scope *NOW*, before the company is in a position to really want it or use it, would be a really, really good idea, while it's not a priority for them. Always easier to keep it in the future than trying to get the camel's nose out of the tent (and RJ's are going to get REALLY cheap in the next 5-7 years after the majority of their service agreements expire)...

There's other stuff in there as well that I'm not crazy about, but overall I think it'll be too close to call on whether it will pass or not.

 

[flygirlqt]

Another ALPA failure.

 

[PHXFLYR]

.... Yeah, you're right. Our negotiators should have walked into the courtroom, flipped the judge and Tilton the bird, dropped trou, pinched a 3 coiler on the floor, and walked out. That would have showed them who's boss!!......

Hmmmm.... Sounds pretty much like USAPA's negotiating strategy going forward. Sure you aren't a member ??

PHXFLYR

 

[samballs]

Right here. This is a decision for the Spirit pilots to make, so I didn't want to jump in too much. But since you asked, I think the SPA MEC and NC did a great job and achieved significant improvements for their pilots. Is it an Alaska or Hawaiian TA? Of course not. Spirit is a niche carrier with a few dozen airplanes. You can't compare them. At the end of this agreement, Spirit will likely be 2-3 times bigger than they currently are, and they will be in a position to seek improvements comparable to other major airlines. But right now, expecting Alaska rates at a small national carrier is not realistic. I predict that it passes by at least a 2 to 1 margin.

Good job to the SPA reps. You guys put up a great fight, and made huge improvements for your pilots.

The typical ALPA response during a failure, they say it everyday