Spirit T/A Details?

[Mike man]

I think the SPA MEC and NC did a great job and achieved significant improvements for their pilots.

You obviously have not seen the TA then.

...and made huge improvements...

now we all know you have not seen the TA

I predict that it passes by at least a 2 to 1 margin.

I agree, Spirit pilots will pass on the TA...2 to 1

 

[say again]

Right here. This is a decision for the Spirit pilots to make, so I didn't want to jump in too much. But since you asked, I think the SPA MEC and NC did a great job and achieved significant improvements for their pilots. Is it an Alaska or Hawaiian TA? Of course not. Spirit is a niche carrier with a few dozen airplanes. You can't compare them. At the end of this agreement, Spirit will likely be 2-3 times bigger than they currently are, and they will be in a position to seek improvements comparable to other major airlines. But right now, expecting Alaska rates at a small national carrier is not realistic. I predict that it passes by at least a 2 to 1 margin.

Good job to the SPA reps. You guys put up a great fight, and made huge improvements for your pilots.

I figured you'd say something to this nature. Sadly, you actually believe what you write.

 

[gt1900]

Is it an Alaska or Hawaiian TA? Of course not. Spirit is a niche carrier with a few dozen airplanes. .

I hate to say this again. But you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. There isn't a bigger "niche" carrier then Hawaiian and they have almost the same number of planes as Spirit.... So why is it Ok for Hawaiian to get a good contract, but no Spirit? Sometimes you really scare me. I think you actually believe the rubish that comes from your mouth.

 

[jonjuan]

I hate to say this again. But you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. There isn't a bigger "niche" carrier then Hawaiian and they have almost the same number of planes as Spirit.... So why is it Ok for Hawaiian to get a good contract, but no Spirit? Sometimes you really scare me. I think you actually believe the rubish that comes from your mouth.

LOL-no kidding. They made $100MM last year!

 

[pipejockey]

I am yet again in total shock at another POS TA that was supposed to be raising the bar. Pilots from a profitable company FINALLY grow the ba**s needed and along with a reasonable administration in the White House, engage in self help, and what do they get for it? NOTHING!!! New hire pay rates that actually WENT DOWN!!! And will still be less 4 years from now than they are today! A pay structure that doesn't even come close to JB's pay structure for A320 pilots, and BARELY keeps up with JB 190 rates. I think management must have drugged your negotiators, because no one in their right mind would sign off on this! Another win for management! They make such a demand for concessions right off the bat, and then when they offer something that is similar to what you currently have, everyone bites. I think it's time ALPA starts hiring full time negotiators like management has and all they do is negotiate contract after contract for airline after airline, because these people they currently have at the individual airlines MEC are dumber than posts!! These legal eagles that management has at their disposal are making total fools of these pilot negotiators.

How does ALPA assess us for a pilot groups strike pay? I was in full support of being assessed even more than they had planned. After all, the contract a pilot group gets after striking will better the profession for all of us right? Well, I'll be damned if I will let one red cent of my hard earned money go to anyone that votes yes on this bucket of vomit they call a TA!!!

 

[crxpilot]

and now you know why there were no "highlights" ahead of time...........

 

[Lear70]

I don't think it'll pass 2 to 1, I think it's going to be close. Very close.

I hate to see pay rates that rob from new-hires to fund other pay brackets. In all likelihood, Spirit has an aggressive growth plan for the upcoming up-swing in the economy and the aviation industry, and management will benefit greatly from these LOWER new-hire rates.

In addition, only half the pilots will really see the best of those rate increases - there will be very few, if any, 5+ year F/O's until the end of the NEXT round of negotiations (the amendable date plus the 3-5 years it will take to negotiate a new agreement). Similar story for the CA rates.

There's some other good things in the T.A., but I'm disappointed for the Spirit pilots overall. Getting ironclad Scope *NOW*, before the company is in a position to really want it or use it, would be a really, really good idea, while it's not a priority for them. Always easier to keep it in the future than trying to get the camel's nose out of the tent (and RJ's are going to get REALLY cheap in the next 5-7 years after the majority of their service agreements expire)...

There's other stuff in there as well that I'm not crazy about, but overall I think it'll be too close to call on whether it will pass or not.

 

[flygirlqt]

Another ALPA failure.

 

[PHXFLYR]

.... Yeah, you're right. Our negotiators should have walked into the courtroom, flipped the judge and Tilton the bird, dropped trou, pinched a 3 coiler on the floor, and walked out. That would have showed them who's boss!!......

Hmmmm.... Sounds pretty much like USAPA's negotiating strategy going forward. Sure you aren't a member ??

PHXFLYR

 

[samballs]

Right here. This is a decision for the Spirit pilots to make, so I didn't want to jump in too much. But since you asked, I think the SPA MEC and NC did a great job and achieved significant improvements for their pilots. Is it an Alaska or Hawaiian TA? Of course not. Spirit is a niche carrier with a few dozen airplanes. You can't compare them. At the end of this agreement, Spirit will likely be 2-3 times bigger than they currently are, and they will be in a position to seek improvements comparable to other major airlines. But right now, expecting Alaska rates at a small national carrier is not realistic. I predict that it passes by at least a 2 to 1 margin.

Good job to the SPA reps. You guys put up a great fight, and made huge improvements for your pilots.

The typical ALPA response during a failure, they say it everyday

 

[samballs]

Right here. This is a decision for the Spirit pilots to make, so I didn't want to jump in too much. But since you asked, I think the SPA MEC and NC did a great job and achieved significant improvements for their pilots. Is it an Alaska or Hawaiian TA? Of course not. Spirit is a niche carrier with a few dozen airplanes. You can't compare them. At the end of this agreement, Spirit will likely be 2-3 times bigger than they currently are, and they will be in a position to seek improvements comparable to other major airlines. But right now, expecting Alaska rates at a small national carrier is not realistic. I predict that it passes by at least a 2 to 1 margin.

Good job to the SPA reps. You guys put up a great fight, and made huge improvements for your pilots.

I love how you say "I wasn't going to jump in to much". You say that like you're a great leader and all the Spirit pilots will follow your every word. Hopefully airtran pilots don't listen to you

 

[jonjuan]

I love how you say "I wasn't going to jump in to much". You say that like you're a great leader and all the Spirit pilots will follow your every word. Hopefully airtran pilots don't listen to you

No kidding. He should be absolutely disgusted by first year and new hire pay. It looks as though a year one pilot should gross well under $30K. How is that a "professional wage?". What is ALPA saying to the experienced Spirit new hires by signing off and endorsing this obvious slap in the face? I'd like to see the wife of a new hire walk up to prater and ask him the same question to see what his response would be. Of course it would probably be, "Listen young lady, don't think of how much you will make when you really need it, rather think of how much you will make when you're 64 and don't really need it or heck, frankly don't care.".

 

[Jiminmem]

I hate to say it, but it looks like Spirit management won this strike.

 

[Flyer1015]

$38.50/hr new hire pay throughout duration of contract?! No pay increase for first year pay at ALL? WTF?

 

[bubbers44]

The only way he could get paid 38.50 throughout the contract is if he got fired every year and came back as a new hire. Green hair must fry the brain.

 

[bubbers44]

38.50 per hr would have been a 400% pay increase my first year as an airline pilot. We were all happy to have the job and looked forward to 2nd yr pay. All of us were jet captains with at least 1,000 jet and 5,000 total to get hired but that was in 1980. Probation pay the first year is to be expected no matter what your experience. Think ahead at least one year. The senior guys flying will make about what our 777 captains with 20+ years make now at AA at the end of their contract. If you get hired in the next 4 years at Spirit just plan on getting through the first year and things improve dramatically.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

First year as an airline pilot? Most newhires will have 5-10 years at a regional before getting the pleasuer of working at $38.50/hr. for a year. THE DUES HAVE ALREADY BEEN PAID!!!

 

[jonjuan]

38.50 per hr would have been a 400% pay increase my first year as an airline pilot. We were all happy to have the job and looked forward to 2nd yr pay. All of us were jet captains with at least 1,000 jet and 5,000 total to get hired but that was in 1980. Probation pay the first year is to be expected no matter what your experience. Think ahead at least one year. The senior guys flying will make about what our 777 captains with 20+ years make now at AA at the end of their contract. If you get hired in the next 4 years at Spirit just plan on getting through the first year and things improve dramatically.

Who friggin cares what aa pilots make. Spirit is making an a$$ load of money with 25 birds. Aa dl ua and us are losing hundreds of millions. If dl can pay over 50/yr to newhires, then spirit can at least pay them that much. Problem is, alpa could care less about a 35-40 year old new hire with kids who will have to figure out how to pay the mortgage on less than 30k gross. "oh, but it's just one small little bitty year.". Spirit can afford it as easily as wn can. Then again, swapa ain't alpa.

 

[SuperFLUF]

38.50 per hr would have been a 400% pay increase my first year as an airline pilot. ....

Starting to get REAL tired of hearing that.

Ever heard of inflation?

You can google it if you haven't.

What cost $38.50 in 1980, costs $98.94 in 2009....
or vice versa $38.50 in 2009 is $14.98 in 1980.

Lack of this basic understanding, along with the time-value of money invested and the absurdity of relying on a corporate funded pension is the reason why folks don't have the money to retire at 60.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

Fun with numbers:

Frontier / JetBlue - Airbus 10 yr. Captain - $ 130,800 avg. annual guarantee

Frontier / JetBlue - Airbus 5 yr. F/O - $ 75,540 avg. annual guarantee


Spirit ( new contract ) - Airbus 10 yr. Captain - $118,998 annual guarantee

Spirit ( new contract ) - Airbus 5 yr. F/O - $ 65,966 annual guarantee

YKW

Those numbers can't be right. RJ Captains make more than that.