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Southwest won.

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If you have read my posts in this thread you will see that I said it is to our best interest to protect our home turf. That means securing one of our biggest and very profitable base. So rather than let Airtran or JB or some other LCC come in we are providing money to ATA to help them out of there situation which benefits us both. We would have never done it if there wasnt money making potential in there because SWA has always squeezed the nickels together and made the buffalo cry! For ATA its a no brainer. They can continue to operate although at a smaller size rather than have no light at the end of the AirTran rainbow. Code share with our company which now has 2800+ flights per day in the US and allows us both to make a small fortune together. They have the chance to recover in some form rather than to have nothing and shrink into a small charter operation back in INDY preserving more jobs in the long run. SWA has always had a great rapport with ATA. Most people outside of the two companies dont understand this at all. They were the first ones our company agreed to give multiple jump seats to and they gave them to us. This is just a small example but you get the drift. I think in time we will see some more very substantial agreements between to 2 of us that will surprise everyone. Time will tell. But hey what do I know? But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last nite! ;-)
 
Assistance? There are more elements in the big picture.

It's a strategic plan with much potential to benefit both ATA and SWA while limiting AAI's potental in Chicago, Dallas, and other areas. There's great potential, but who will benefit most remains to be seen.

Judging from chatter among residents near Midway, the partnership is a winner. Acquaintances in Maryland think the codeshare makes a nifty way to visit Hawaii. That is not a Wilson Poll, but this doesn't have to be a money waster. When Ty writes his book about swallowing his way up the career ladder, he can buy Y fares to make appearances on his book tour...


Here's the first marketing slogan:


More Destinations!​
Great Fares!​
Scab Free!​
 
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Jim Smyth said:
If you have read my posts in this thread you will see that I said it is to our best interest to protect our home turf. That means securing one of our biggest and very profitable base. So rather than let Airtran or JB or some other LCC come in we are providing money to ATA to help them out of there situation which benefits us both. We would have never done it if there wasnt money making potential in there
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Jim,

I completely agree with you that this is about protecting SWA's home turf. However, that is all that it is about. SWA is not "providing" money to ATA for nothing. SWA is receiving gates in exchange for paying ATA however many millions of dollars.

If SWA is interested in helping ATA, does that mean they will set their MDW airfares for fifty dollars more than ATA's fares in order to funnel business to ATA? I think not. The way SWA makes money in this deal is because now it will not have to engage in a fare war with AirTran at MDW. SWA may, in fact, be able to raise fares at MDW due to the semi-monopoly situation they have created for themselves there.
 
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Dude, ATA Captains were making like $48,000/yr. until the last contract. I know you could make more, but I think the term you guys used was "whore flying".

Take a look in the mirror you deush.
 
All hail Powderfinger, King Idiot of the Message Board.

Talk to us in 24 months, buddy, when you're on the street and on your knees.

With your winning ways and personality, though, I'm sure you'll be back in the right seat in no time.:cool:
 
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Delville said:
Jim,

I completely agree with you that this is about protecting SWA's home turf. However, that is all that it is about. SWA is not "providing" money to SWA for nothing. SWA is receiving gates in exchange for paying ATA however many millions of dollars.

If SWA is interested in helping ATA, does that mean they will set their MDW airfares for fifty dollars more than ATA's fares in order to funnel business to ATA? I think not. The way SWA makes money in this deal is because now it will not have to engage in a fare war with AirTran at MDW. SWA may, in fact, be able to raise fares at MDW due to the semi-monopoly situation they have created for themselves there.
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Delville, you dont understand the way we work and it seems that the more I try to explain to you the more you get confused. Have you ever been to Love field? I think the fares there are alot cheaper than DFW and there is no competetion at DAL other than the automobile!
 
Jim,

I don't doubt that SWA will have fares lower than what is available at O'Hare. It wouldn't make sense not to. However, with no sizeable competitor now at MDW and with such an advantage in available seats, SWA may have an opportunity to raise fares to a price point higher than that of other airlines also operating from MDW. That would also make sense.

My only real point in this is that SWA entered into this deal only to help itself. It had to structure the deal to convince the bankruptcy court, the creditors, and the city that it is the best package for ATA. SWA is not concerned about ATA's or any competitor's interests in the least. That's how any airline and any business has to operate. That's not a bad thing. To think anything else, however, is to delusionally elevate SWA in your mind to some kind of fanciful airline industry fairy godmother.
 
Of course SWA entered into this deal to help itself, that is what they are in business for. ATA will either benefit from the new opportunity or fail trying. Either way they have some new life and I hope they make the best of it. As far as a SWA commitment, I don't believe they are into ATA for the long haul. Sell the 27.5% stock at a profit and move on. Nothing has been said about merging seniority lists, merging assets or any possible interviews. I don't believe SWA would go for a "merger" of lists.
 
OffHot said:
Nothing has been said about merging seniority lists, merging assets or any possible interviews. I don't believe SWA would go for a "merger" of lists.
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Actually, we do have a commitment from WN for preferential interviews for all furloughed ATA pilots. This is a code share with ATA/WN. We will do long haul and Intl and they will feed us. The possibilities are limitless!
 
This is too funny.

When AirTran offered preferential interviews, you guys all whined and moaned like two-dollar hookers. Now that SWA is offering preferential interviews, the possibilities are endless.

I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.
 
Ty Webb said:
This is too funny.

When AirTran offered preferential interviews, you guys all whined and moaned like two-dollar hookers. Now that SWA is offering preferential interviews, the possibilities are endless.

I'd laugh if it wasn't so sad.
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First off, AAI didn't offer ANYTHING until the mayor got up their a$$. Second, with the WN deal, ATA will only be downsized by 6 gates or 20% of the total capacity with the potential for a future, AAI just wanted assets. WN asked US about the furlougees...we didn't have to ask them.

ATA and ALL the employees are exponentially better off with the WN deal. You Ty are just upseat beacuse you LOST. I'm not going to get into a long debate with you. Facts are facts.
 
Ty,

The main difference is desire. SWA entered into this agreement before the City asked them to.

Never once have I heard a negative comment regarding ATA pilots on this board or anywhere else. They at least now, seem to be excited about the possiblities of this relationship.

This is not to talk down on AirTran pilots, just an observation of how the corporate culture at SWA is different from anywhere I have seen.
 
It was only a week ago that AAI made any attempt at all to entertain pref interviews. Thats fine, thats how your management wanted things. AAI doesn't owe us at ATA anything. We were given a two day notice that you'd have someone in our MDW operations accepting resumes. I'm not sure how many people showed up, however the little lady that showed up told my friend he needed more experience. Well he's a 737 capt at ATA, he has also flown the 727, 757, and L1011 all over the world at ATA. I also flew cargo with him before ATA on the 727. Well I haven't figured out where we need to get more experience, maybe NASA.
 
Who was the little lady that showed up?
 
A great play by Southwest....they appeal to the common good by keeping ATA intact, make Airtran look like the badguy. This smells ugly. Usually, this kind of posturing later unveils truly different intentions.
 
ATA For Now!

I have not read anything official yet about ATA reducing the number of furloughs planned with an SWA deal vs an AAI deal. Regardless, what does this ultimately do for ATA besides infuse them with some cash to meet their short-term debt obligations? Is SWA revamping ATA's business model or reorganizing the company? Absent significant changes or improvements in that department, ATA is still a money-losing operation. SWA may send some business ATA's way via the code-share but if ATA can't efficiently manage it's own operation, then it'll still lose money. If ATA didn't make money with 14 MDW gates, is it not going to be more difficult with only six gates? I understand how SWA is better off with this deal but I certainly don't understand how ATA is "exponentially" better off with it.
 
ATA for Now, that is great that we are going to offer preferential interviews, I was not aware of this per the information that has been given us on the deal. Then again I'm sure you as an ATA pilot have a lot more interest in the details, I know I would. As far as what routes we code share on will be interesting. I don't think international destinations will be on the table unless WN has nothing to do with clearing anyone through customs. Also, Hawaii is a toss up. That is a low yield high frequent flyer destination, not something that pays the bills. What ever happens we wish you guys the best, you have treated us well over the years and I hope we have treated you guys as well
 
Delville said:
Jim,

I don't doubt that SWA will have fares lower than what is available at O'Hare. It wouldn't make sense not to. However, with no sizeable competitor now at MDW and with such an advantage in available seats, SWA may have an opportunity to raise fares to a price point higher than that of other airlines also operating from MDW. That would also make sense.

My only real point in this is that SWA entered into this deal only to help itself. It had to structure the deal to convince the bankruptcy court, the creditors, and the city that it is the best package for ATA. SWA is not concerned about ATA's or any competitor's interests in the least. That's how any airline and any business has to operate. That's not a bad thing. To think anything else, however, is to delusionally elevate SWA in your mind to some kind of fanciful airline industry fairy godmother.
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Lets stop splitting hairs. SWA is infact concerned for the well being of ATA... because SWA stands to gain from the continued operation of ATA.
 
Kharma Police said:
I would concern yourself with the future. You might some day be looking for a job at AirTran.

Originally Posted by POWDERFINGER
My tool may be small, but it is effective...and it doesn't turn folks off the way an AAI badge does. It is time to gloat for a moment at the apparent defeat of the AAI bid for ATA assets.

There's a rotten gene of terpitude that's been passed from Louis Jordan all the way to Joe Leonard and his gaggle of wannabes over there, and I'm glad they're off to infest some other airline and not ATA. Thus is slowed this industry's race to the bottom!
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It has been over five years, and I am happy to report that I have STILL not come close to considering work at Scabtran. In addition, the BORG (Southwest) are not an option worthy of my talents and skills. Why join a company that orchestrated the destruction of my last job?

The US airline industry's decline has accelerated into a supersonic dive into chaos and insolvency, but that doesn't justify generating revenue for the soul-less companies driving the process.

I've gotten the hell out of that arena, and happily work (on the flight deck) for a company that I respect. May ATA Airlines rest in peace.
 
POWDERFINGER said:
It has been over five years, and I am happy to report that I have STILL not come close to considering work at Scabtran. In addition, the BORG (Southwest) are not an option worthy of my talents and skills. Why join a company that orchestrated the destruction of my last job?

The US airline industry's decline has accelerated into a supersonic dive into chaos and insolvency, but that doesn't justify generating revenue for the soul-less companies driving the process.

I've gotten the hell out of that arena, and happily work (on the flight deck) for a company that I respect. May ATA Airlines rest in peace.
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WTF over
 

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