Southwest won.

[Ty Webb]

For the meantime, yes.

Don't know if you saw this:

Southwest said it hasn't agreed to hire any ATA workers who would lose their jobs but would give "priority interviews" to ATA employees.

The other irony of this situation is that we offered ATA more codehare revenue, and I think our plan really intended for ATA to succeed. SWA's motives seem more like they are interested in propping you guys up to keep us out.

We'll see how it goes.

 

[Delville]

Hopefully we will gain a stake in ATA and help them get back on there feet and make a profit on our investment in the process while protecting our home turf so to speak.

Dooooooood, what have you been smoking? I think you're failing to understand the difference between marketing and reality in this situation. All of the talk about "assisting" ATA was simply so SWA could sell the bid to the concerned parties, esp the city of Chicago. SWA, especially with Gary Kelly at the helm, is not interested in benevolently aiding competitors. No airline is. Why isn't SWA donating money right now to Delta, United, or USAir to "help them get back on their feet"? This deal was plain and simply about fending off AirTran. Duh. ATA was merely a pawn in the deal. Once the deal is closed, SWA would be even better off if ATA folded up shop.

 

[MDP727]

Maybe so but on the flip side there is great potential. Our certificate at ATA allows us to fly wherever there is air. Now you have the largest domestic airline in terms of passengers with code share and a stake in ATA. Very soon you will be able to buy a ticket on SWA to Hawaii, the caribbean, and Mexico. Then perhaps Philly to Europe. Then Florida markets to South America. Not to mention the fast that SWA does a significant amount of Military flights in the US. Well guess what now they'll feed our L1011's going overseas. Finally the dominant US low cost carrier poised to kick the legacies in the teeth on International markets.

 

[Boeingman]

You know, TY does have a point. I haven't seen anywhere about this deal including employees nor any talks between SWAPA & ALPA. Did I miss something?

 

[POWDERFINGER]

Anyone who is stupid enough to make a comment like this will certainly come to see it pass.

Ty Webb,

Consider that I don't care to work for AAI, even if they were the last airline on earth. I would indeed do something else and feel fine about it. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

There's more to life, and if you and Fletch would ever put the crack pipe away for a day you might become aware of that! It would be fun to fly for an outfit that reposesses airplanes...maybe come for Airtranny's metal someday

 

[Delville]

Jim Smyth,

Sir, you are a real gentleman and I'd be proud to work with other SWA employees just like you!

ATAFan,

Same question. Doooooooooood, what have you been smoking? Unless, I missed something, as an ATA employee you won't be working with SWA anytime soon. There is some talk of preferential interviews for you guys, but that would require you to abandon the ATA ship. In my opinion, that would not be a bad idea at all. As soon as ATA burns through the cash that will be infused by SWA, it will hardly be in a better position than it is now.

 

[HalinTexas]

The Airtran deal only offered a code share until they succeeding at supplanting ATA somewhere around next summer. ATA at that point would have been 1/3 the size that it is now. Little or no funding, 2/3 of the employees gone with only interviews at Airtran, and facing NWA bent on taking over IND. Most if not all LGA and DCA slots gone. MDW gates are all handed over to Airtran.


The SWA deal offers a code share as long as SWA sees fit to keep it. At least until the loans are paid off. Code share opportunities outside of MDW exist to a much greater degree than anything Airtran could offer. ATA will be about 80% the size it is now. SWA loans have a limit, but I submit that they could guarantee greater credit potential than a 6-8 month deal with Airtran. Preferential interviews are about the same, but a job at SWA is far greater than a job at Airtran by any measure or all combined! All LGA and DCA slots remain with ATA. ATA will be allowed to keep 8 of their gates in MDW, and will probably be able to use the newly acquired SWA gates until/unless SWA needs them.

Long term view. For $25M more, SWA offers a better deal for all involved. However, I'm under no illusions that it will be a permanent solution and SWA could bury ATA if/when it comes out of its indebtedness, or SWA could stop funding/loaning ATA moneys if it continues to lose great amounts of it. The determining factor here is who will be the upper managment at ATA. What are their plans? Michelsons is probably only going to be Chaiman of the New Board of Directors, and I imagine all those individuals with "Chief" as part of thier titles will be replaced. While a little more secure in my future, I'm not totally secure in this settlement, and will be postitive thinking, but cautiously optimistic.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty Webb,

Consider that I don't care to work for AAI, even if they were the last airline on earth. I would indeed do something else and feel fine about it.

That's great. The world needs ditch-diggers, too.

 

[Ty Webb]

The Airtran deal only offered a code share until they succeeding at supplanting ATA somewhere around next summer.

I didn't see any time-limit to the code-share. In fact, AirTran officials were quoted as saying that it would amount to "Over $100 million to ATA per year", which seems to indicate that it would last longer than you believe.

Sounds to me like you are confusing the wet-lease with the code-share.

If you did see a time limit for the code-share, please post it, otherwise, let's try to stick to the facts, there is enough BS floating around here already.

 

[HalinTexas]

I didn't see any time-limit to the code-share. In fact, AirTran officials were quoted as saying that it would amount to "Over $100 million to ATA per year", which seems to indicate that it would last longer than you believe.

Sounds to me like you are confusing the wet-lease with the code-share.

If you did see a time limit for the code-share, please post it, otherwise, let's try to stick to the facts, there is enough BS floating around here already.

Well, I'd like to see where you get your info. Mine is from the ATA employee website and my union "bitch board." I've only seen $90M from Airtran to wet lease until FL takes over MDW and then TZ is on its own and 66% of its employees gone. There was no mention of a long-term code share.

Where would ATA code share to if Airtran has all the gates in MDW? Indianapolis?

 

[Jim Smyth]

Delville


You seem to be the one smoking something Duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuude!

 

[Delville]

Jim,

Good one. Seriously though, you don't really believe that SWA is trying to "assist" ATA do you?

 

[Jim Smyth]

If you have read my posts in this thread you will see that I said it is to our best interest to protect our home turf. That means securing one of our biggest and very profitable base. So rather than let Airtran or JB or some other LCC come in we are providing money to ATA to help them out of there situation which benefits us both. We would have never done it if there wasnt money making potential in there because SWA has always squeezed the nickels together and made the buffalo cry! For ATA its a no brainer. They can continue to operate although at a smaller size rather than have no light at the end of the AirTran rainbow. Code share with our company which now has 2800+ flights per day in the US and allows us both to make a small fortune together. They have the chance to recover in some form rather than to have nothing and shrink into a small charter operation back in INDY preserving more jobs in the long run. SWA has always had a great rapport with ATA. Most people outside of the two companies dont understand this at all. They were the first ones our company agreed to give multiple jump seats to and they gave them to us. This is just a small example but you get the drift. I think in time we will see some more very substantial agreements between to 2 of us that will surprise everyone. Time will tell. But hey what do I know? But I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last nite! ;-)

 

[POWDERFINGER]

Assistance? There are more elements in the big picture.

It's a strategic plan with much potential to benefit both ATA and SWA while limiting AAI's potental in Chicago, Dallas, and other areas. There's great potential, but who will benefit most remains to be seen.

Judging from chatter among residents near Midway, the partnership is a winner. Acquaintances in Maryland think the codeshare makes a nifty way to visit Hawaii. That is not a Wilson Poll, but this doesn't have to be a money waster. When Ty writes his book about swallowing his way up the career ladder, he can buy Y fares to make appearances on his book tour...


Here's the first marketing slogan:

More Destinations!​

Great Fares!​

Scab Free!​

 

[Flip Conroy]

.......

 

[Delville]

If you have read my posts in this thread you will see that I said it is to our best interest to protect our home turf. That means securing one of our biggest and very profitable base. So rather than let Airtran or JB or some other LCC come in we are providing money to ATA to help them out of there situation which benefits us both. We would have never done it if there wasnt money making potential in there

Jim,

I completely agree with you that this is about protecting SWA's home turf. However, that is all that it is about. SWA is not "providing" money to ATA for nothing. SWA is receiving gates in exchange for paying ATA however many millions of dollars.

If SWA is interested in helping ATA, does that mean they will set their MDW airfares for fifty dollars more than ATA's fares in order to funnel business to ATA? I think not. The way SWA makes money in this deal is because now it will not have to engage in a fare war with AirTran at MDW. SWA may, in fact, be able to raise fares at MDW due to the semi-monopoly situation they have created for themselves there.

 

[75M]

Dude, ATA Captains were making like $48,000/yr. until the last contract. I know you could make more, but I think the term you guys used was "whore flying".

Take a look in the mirror you deush.

 

[Ty Webb]

All hail Powderfinger, King Idiot of the Message Board.

Talk to us in 24 months, buddy, when you're on the street and on your knees.

With your winning ways and personality, though, I'm sure you'll be back in the right seat in no time.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Jim,

I completely agree with you that this is about protecting SWA's home turf. However, that is all that it is about. SWA is not "providing" money to SWA for nothing. SWA is receiving gates in exchange for paying ATA however many millions of dollars.

If SWA is interested in helping ATA, does that mean they will set their MDW airfares for fifty dollars more than ATA's fares in order to funnel business to ATA? I think not. The way SWA makes money in this deal is because now it will not have to engage in a fare war with AirTran at MDW. SWA may, in fact, be able to raise fares at MDW due to the semi-monopoly situation they have created for themselves there.

Delville, you dont understand the way we work and it seems that the more I try to explain to you the more you get confused. Have you ever been to Love field? I think the fares there are alot cheaper than DFW and there is no competetion at DAL other than the automobile!

 

[Delville]

Jim,

I don't doubt that SWA will have fares lower than what is available at O'Hare. It wouldn't make sense not to. However, with no sizeable competitor now at MDW and with such an advantage in available seats, SWA may have an opportunity to raise fares to a price point higher than that of other airlines also operating from MDW. That would also make sense.

My only real point in this is that SWA entered into this deal only to help itself. It had to structure the deal to convince the bankruptcy court, the creditors, and the city that it is the best package for ATA. SWA is not concerned about ATA's or any competitor's interests in the least. That's how any airline and any business has to operate. That's not a bad thing. To think anything else, however, is to delusionally elevate SWA in your mind to some kind of fanciful airline industry fairy godmother.