Southwest won.

[Jim Smyth]

Boeingman, Actualy at first I was a litttle pissed reading your comment but it was obvious you didnt understand what had transpired with the Morris buyout and it's good to know what actualy happened from an insider. Sometimes it's easy to Slam a company before knowing the facts but I guess thats what makes this forum good to learn from one another.

Intially SWA wanted to interview all the Morris Pilots and pick the ones they wanted just like in the interview process. The Morris Pilots stuck together and said it was all or nothing. After alot of internal debate with the union leaders for Morris and SWA it was decided that SWA would take all of them. There were 202 Morris Pilots that came on board as of 01-01-1994. Some of them didnt have a type rating either which was a first for SWA as far as I know. The main reason that SWA wanted to interview them first was that there was a few of them there that had been terminated at SWA for various reasons and I am sure there were strong feelings by SWA managemant types that didnt want them back. All in all it wasnt perfect merger/buyout/accusation but wasnt bad either. When your being acquired you never get the better end of the deal IMO. But as the industry has taught us it could have been alot worse thats for sure.

Now the ATA situation is very fluid at the moment. Gary stated that as a company we are not taking control of ATA which we did in the Morris deal so it's a completely different type of situation. So I am not sure how it will shake out when its done but I wish all the ATA folks the best. Hopefully we will gain a stake in ATA and help them get back on there feet and make a profit on our investment in the process while protecting our home turf so to speak. The ATA folks and SWA have worked very well together in the past and I see great things in the future for both of us. With any luck down the road the ATA will prosper and be able to bring some of the folks back that they may have to furlough in the near term. From my own experiance I know that SWA likes the home team meaning ATA folks in Chicago. So I am sure the furloughed ones will have a very good opportunaty to interview and get hired at SWA in the interm. We have ambitious plans for next year and will need alot of good qualified help.

 

[Boeingman]

Boeingman, Actualy at first I was a litttle pissed reading your comment but it was obvious you didnt understand what had transpired with the Morris buyout and it's good to know what actualy happened from an insider. Sometimes it's easy to Slam a company before knowing the facts but I guess thats what makes this forum good to learn from one another.

After rereading it this morning, I don't blame you since it wasn't worded very well. Thanks for giving me the benefit of doubt on that one. I never intended it as a slam, but it did sound like it. My bad! The forum is perfect to be able to learn and it is abhorrent because it can't impart inflection in tone of facial expression to help the communication. Nature of the beast.

You're correct I didn't know what happened and it, like all rumors grow in intensity until put to rest. I think your reply will help with some very emotional roller coasters going on at ATA right now.

Intially SWA wanted to interview all the Morris Pilots and pick the ones they wanted just like in the interview process. The Morris Pilots stuck together and said it was all or nothing. After alot of internal debate with the union leaders for Morris and SWA it was decided that SWA would take all of them. There were 202 Morris Pilots that came on board as of 01-01-1994. Some of them didnt have a type rating either which was a first for SWA as far as I know. The main reason that SWA wanted to interview them first was that there was a few of them there that had been terminated at SWA for various reasons and I am sure there were strong feelings by SWA managemant types that didnt want them back. All in all it wasnt perfect merger/buyout/accusation but wasnt bad either. When your being acquired you never get the better end of the deal IMO. But as the industry has taught us it could have been alot worse thats for sure.

Again, thanks for the time to answer. Knowing the facts, it was a good deal.

 

[atafan]

Jim Smyth,

Sir, you are a real gentleman and I'd be proud to work with other SWA employees just like you!

 

[Ty Webb]

It sounds like you are making an assumption that there will be some sort of list integration . . . . and I don't see where that would ever happen out of a minority ownership.

A separate operating certificate and two separate employee groups is what I would expect.

 

[ATA For Now!]

two separate employee groups is what I would expect.

At least with WN there will be employees!

 

[Ty Webb]

For the meantime, yes.

Don't know if you saw this:

Southwest said it hasn't agreed to hire any ATA workers who would lose their jobs but would give "priority interviews" to ATA employees.

The other irony of this situation is that we offered ATA more codehare revenue, and I think our plan really intended for ATA to succeed. SWA's motives seem more like they are interested in propping you guys up to keep us out.

We'll see how it goes.

 

[Delville]

Hopefully we will gain a stake in ATA and help them get back on there feet and make a profit on our investment in the process while protecting our home turf so to speak.

Dooooooood, what have you been smoking? I think you're failing to understand the difference between marketing and reality in this situation. All of the talk about "assisting" ATA was simply so SWA could sell the bid to the concerned parties, esp the city of Chicago. SWA, especially with Gary Kelly at the helm, is not interested in benevolently aiding competitors. No airline is. Why isn't SWA donating money right now to Delta, United, or USAir to "help them get back on their feet"? This deal was plain and simply about fending off AirTran. Duh. ATA was merely a pawn in the deal. Once the deal is closed, SWA would be even better off if ATA folded up shop.

 

[MDP727]

Maybe so but on the flip side there is great potential. Our certificate at ATA allows us to fly wherever there is air. Now you have the largest domestic airline in terms of passengers with code share and a stake in ATA. Very soon you will be able to buy a ticket on SWA to Hawaii, the caribbean, and Mexico. Then perhaps Philly to Europe. Then Florida markets to South America. Not to mention the fast that SWA does a significant amount of Military flights in the US. Well guess what now they'll feed our L1011's going overseas. Finally the dominant US low cost carrier poised to kick the legacies in the teeth on International markets.

 

[Boeingman]

You know, TY does have a point. I haven't seen anywhere about this deal including employees nor any talks between SWAPA & ALPA. Did I miss something?

 

[POWDERFINGER]

Anyone who is stupid enough to make a comment like this will certainly come to see it pass.

Ty Webb,

Consider that I don't care to work for AAI, even if they were the last airline on earth. I would indeed do something else and feel fine about it. I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

There's more to life, and if you and Fletch would ever put the crack pipe away for a day you might become aware of that! It would be fun to fly for an outfit that reposesses airplanes...maybe come for Airtranny's metal someday

 

[Delville]

Jim Smyth,

Sir, you are a real gentleman and I'd be proud to work with other SWA employees just like you!

ATAFan,

Same question. Doooooooooood, what have you been smoking? Unless, I missed something, as an ATA employee you won't be working with SWA anytime soon. There is some talk of preferential interviews for you guys, but that would require you to abandon the ATA ship. In my opinion, that would not be a bad idea at all. As soon as ATA burns through the cash that will be infused by SWA, it will hardly be in a better position than it is now.

 

[HalinTexas]

The Airtran deal only offered a code share until they succeeding at supplanting ATA somewhere around next summer. ATA at that point would have been 1/3 the size that it is now. Little or no funding, 2/3 of the employees gone with only interviews at Airtran, and facing NWA bent on taking over IND. Most if not all LGA and DCA slots gone. MDW gates are all handed over to Airtran.


The SWA deal offers a code share as long as SWA sees fit to keep it. At least until the loans are paid off. Code share opportunities outside of MDW exist to a much greater degree than anything Airtran could offer. ATA will be about 80% the size it is now. SWA loans have a limit, but I submit that they could guarantee greater credit potential than a 6-8 month deal with Airtran. Preferential interviews are about the same, but a job at SWA is far greater than a job at Airtran by any measure or all combined! All LGA and DCA slots remain with ATA. ATA will be allowed to keep 8 of their gates in MDW, and will probably be able to use the newly acquired SWA gates until/unless SWA needs them.

Long term view. For $25M more, SWA offers a better deal for all involved. However, I'm under no illusions that it will be a permanent solution and SWA could bury ATA if/when it comes out of its indebtedness, or SWA could stop funding/loaning ATA moneys if it continues to lose great amounts of it. The determining factor here is who will be the upper managment at ATA. What are their plans? Michelsons is probably only going to be Chaiman of the New Board of Directors, and I imagine all those individuals with "Chief" as part of thier titles will be replaced. While a little more secure in my future, I'm not totally secure in this settlement, and will be postitive thinking, but cautiously optimistic.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty Webb,

Consider that I don't care to work for AAI, even if they were the last airline on earth. I would indeed do something else and feel fine about it.

That's great. The world needs ditch-diggers, too.

 

[Ty Webb]

The Airtran deal only offered a code share until they succeeding at supplanting ATA somewhere around next summer.

I didn't see any time-limit to the code-share. In fact, AirTran officials were quoted as saying that it would amount to "Over $100 million to ATA per year", which seems to indicate that it would last longer than you believe.

Sounds to me like you are confusing the wet-lease with the code-share.

If you did see a time limit for the code-share, please post it, otherwise, let's try to stick to the facts, there is enough BS floating around here already.

 

[HalinTexas]

I didn't see any time-limit to the code-share. In fact, AirTran officials were quoted as saying that it would amount to "Over $100 million to ATA per year", which seems to indicate that it would last longer than you believe.

Sounds to me like you are confusing the wet-lease with the code-share.

If you did see a time limit for the code-share, please post it, otherwise, let's try to stick to the facts, there is enough BS floating around here already.

Well, I'd like to see where you get your info. Mine is from the ATA employee website and my union "bitch board." I've only seen $90M from Airtran to wet lease until FL takes over MDW and then TZ is on its own and 66% of its employees gone. There was no mention of a long-term code share.

Where would ATA code share to if Airtran has all the gates in MDW? Indianapolis?