Southwest Upgrade

[jonjuan]

Anyone know the mandatory airtran retirements over the next 15-20 years?

 

[boeing717]

I think Lee is funny, but I am not exactly like him. I was furloughed and then flew corporate. My experience is different. I do however share his displeasure of the way certain Southwest pilots treat their soon to be "brothers" at Airtran, and I have joined in on the various topics.

OYS

I am sure Airtran pilots feel real comfortable knowing you are on their side along with GL. What a good feeling. Please, give me a break. Are we suppose to sleep better tonight knowing this?

 

[On Your Six]

Good point. However, lets again be fair. If Airtran can do don't you think SWA can do it? I really do not know why we respond to this type of crap. Face it, they are better than us in many ways and that is why we are being bought.

This guy is not an Airtran pilot.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

I am sure Airtran pilots feel real comfortable knowing you are on their side along with GL. What a good feeling. Please, give me a break. Are we suppose to sleep better tonight knowing this?

Again, this guy isn't an Airtran pilot at all. Wouldn't you have said "our side" instead of "their side?" Good try.


OYS

 

[boeing717]

This guy is not an Airtran pilot.


OYS

Why, because I do not agree with you and GL? Who said I was a pilot, could I be an employee with Airtran but not a pilot? It doesn't matter whether I am a pilot or just another employee, this site is not just for pilots, all employees can participate. I have just as much interest in this whether as a pilot or not. Don't I? You and some of the others including pilots are causing more head aches than we need. Anybody that agrees with you just to be accepted is a fool.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Oys

This guy is not an Airtran pilot.

And as was pointed out to me by the Flight Info faithful,
neither are you!

What is your fascination with all things SWA/AAI?

Please, do tell!

 

[boeing717]

Again, this guy isn't an Airtran pilot at all. Wouldn't you have said "our side" instead of "their side?" Good try.


OYS

You are correct if I was an Airtran pilot, however, if I am just an employee then I would be correct by saying the pilots would be glad to know that you are on their side. For someone that doesn't work for Airtran you really get worked up on this subject. Relax, you have nothing to lose. You act like you are the spoke person for Airtran.

 

[fuzzy077]

You act like you are the spoke person for Airtran.

Is that the guy who is in charge of all the spokes?

 

[hockeypilot44]

I thought dal was hiring and recalling furloughees. Of so, how can the list be shrinking? Also, I think I saw a post here which showed if hired in 2012, 1/2 the list would hit 65 in 2022 or 11 years at DAL and 2028 or 17 years at wn (not including the airtran guys which would extend this date a year or two). So if these facts are correct, a guy getting on at dal next year (assuming growth stasis) would be at 50% in 10 years and the same wn guy (again assuming growth stasis) hired in 2012 would hit 50% in 2028 or 16 years.
16 years versus 10 is a big delta (payrates are another story).
I'd love to be corrected if anyone has more accurate facts.

1/2 the list will not hit 65 by 2022. this is false. In 2022, 35 percent of the list will hit 65. 1/2 the list will hit 60 by 2024. Delta is not hiring. We hired 170 new pilots at the end of 2010. We recalled about 130 voluntary furloughed pilots. The new hires were to replace Northwest pilots that retired early due to a buy-out program.

2200 pilots will be "in the zone" by this Summer, that is between 60 and 65. 2000 will hit 65 within the next few years. That means movement. It may not mean right over to the left seat in a year, but people will be jumping up aircraft types (and pay scales) from year to year at a fast pace. 4000 pilots will retire over the next 10 years total. As I stated, if each guy that retires is a widebody Captain or narrowbody Captain, that means good things.

Southwest will have a lot less scheduled retirements, and gaining the younger Airtran pilots may cause some stagnation for years. Reading about these grandiose plans to fly to Europe and Hawaii are interesting, and humorous. The SWA guys are still saying it could take MORE than 24 months to integrate the AT guys. And they plan to start Major ETOPS service soon? Right.


OYS

Your statements are gross over-estimates. They are false. We have 820 pilots hitting 65 by the end of 2017. 820 pilots in 6 years is not very many at a company our size. You really need to look at a crystal ball.

 

[johnsonrod]

1/2 the list will not hit 65 by 2022. this is false. In 2022, 35 percent of the list will hit 65. 1/2 the list will hit 60 by 2024. Delta is not hiring. We hired 170 new pilots at the end of 2010. We recalled about 130 voluntary furloughed pilots. The new hires were to replace Northwest pilots that retired early due to a buy-out program.



Your statements are gross over-estimates. They are false. We have 820 pilots hitting 65 by the end of 2017. 820 pilots in 6 years is not very many at a company our size. You really need to look at a crystal ball.

And you have all the answers.... No way all of these pilots will last until they reach 65. Many will bug out earlier.

 

[hockeypilot44]

And you have all the answers.... No way all of these pilots will last until they reach 65. Many will bug out earlier.

I think a lot will be forced to leave early due to health issues, but the fact is very few pilots are retiring early. We have hundreds of pilots on the list older than 60. That shows me that pilots are not retiring early. I have flown with numerous pilots over 60 and not one has even hinted at retiring early. I've flown with pilots in their late 50's who claim they are going to retire at 60, but I won't believe it until I see it. A late 2010 hire is right behind me on the list so we'll probably upgrade about the same time. I guess he's looking at a 13-14 year upgrade, but that's by no means a quick upgrade historically.

 

[Bwipilot]

I'm enjoying these threads a lot more after putting OYS on my ignore list. To that end, feel free to reply to OYS but please don't quote him. It's more fun to guess what his latest obloviation is--as opposed to having to read it.

 

[Whaler]

This guy is not an Airtran pilot.


OYS

You're definitely a Delta guy.

 

[slaquer5]

You're definitely a Delta guy.

I don't care who you are, that is funny.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

So is it really something like 19 years for the new guys?

who cares...
Straight from APC:

And:

So after upgrade at 12 years, The guppy pay and the whale pay is basically the same, well except DAL guys don't upgrade to the whale AND SW GUYS FLY AS MUCH AS THEY WANT!
KBB

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Well, sounds like apples to oranges...

except they're both fish!

It is interesting that the Whale pay the 10-12 years at DAL is SW +$1...
KBB

 

[Dude]

I see stupid people!

 

[Captzaahlie]

..........

 

[Bob Dylan]

If Southwest staples the AirTran/Guadaloupe pilots then you will see serious upgrades at SWA. Anything less than a straight staple will not be good for Southwest upgrades.

 

[canyonblue]

I think Lee is funny, but I am not exactly like him.

You both have the same obnoxious writing style, that of a Junior High kid who couldn't pass Language Arts. The title of this thread is "Southwest Upgrade", what exactly could you possibly contribute to this discussion when you have zero knowledge on the subject?

I know Delta is boring as all he!!, so you troll the Southwest threads because it's more exciting than your current airline could ever be. I am suggesting you do us all a favor, and only post on subjects you have firsthand knowledge of. If any questions come up about Delta we will be sure to get your perspective.

 

[canyonblue]

So after upgrade at 12 years, The guppy pay and the whale pay is basically the same, well except DAL guys don't upgrade to the whale AND SW GUYS FLY AS MUCH AS THEY WANT!
KBB

Even worse, there are only 34 airplanes at Delta that pay a Captain over $210 an hour. Southwest pays $210 an hour on 544 aircraft, put that into perspective.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Canyon....

10 years ago, that was reversed. You guys are cheering for being paid so well now, but your rear view seems to be forgotten. Your pilot group was part of the problem why everybody took pay cuts. Capitalism? maybe... but perhaps the next LCC flash in the pan will bring you guys some perspective come contract time.

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Canyon....

10 years ago, that was reversed. You guys are cheering for being paid so well now, but your rear view seems to be forgotten. Your pilot group was part of the problem why everybody took pay cuts. Capitalism? maybe... but perhaps the next LCC flash in the pan will bring you guys some perspective come contract time.

+1
This whole thread has been entertaining. I especially liked the part about southwest to Europe.:laugh:
Well you know the old saying..............There goes the neighborhood.

 

[kwick]

If Southwest staples the AirTran/Guadaloupe pilots then you will see serious upgrades at SWA. Anything less than a straight staple will not be good for Southwest upgrades.

And if the SW guys are stapled below the Airtran pilots there
will be a bunch of downgrades!

 

[Quimby]

Whoever would have thought a little crop duster operation from the south would be flying the "big jets"?

 

[GuppyWN]

10 years ago, that was reversed. You guys are cheering for being paid so well now, but your rear view seems to be forgotten.

10 YEARS ago. Or roughly 30-50% of a typical airline career.

You done, Bill? imp:

Gup

 

[Always deferred]

You must also consider the possibility that in 10-20 years, the retirement age could be 70, or 75, or abolished altogether...

 

[On Your Six]

You both have the same obnoxious writing style, that of a Junior High kid who couldn't pass Language Arts. The title of this thread is "Southwest Upgrade", what exactly could you possibly contribute to this discussion when you have zero knowledge on the subject?

I know Delta is boring as all he!!, so you troll the Southwest threads because it's more exciting than your current airline could ever be. I am suggesting you do us all a favor, and only post on subjects you have firsthand knowledge of. If any questions come up about Delta we will be sure to get your perspective.

Obnoxious writing style? You mean the truth hurts? I gave my opinions, which I am allowed to do, on what I thought about future prospects of a Southwest upgrade and I am villified. I gave a well thought out explanation, that the Southwest guys don't agree with, but cannot defend, other than slamming me. Gup himself said Southwest wouldn't have many scheduled retirements for years, maybe 150 max per year. And, that is not even close to some of the Legacy numbers for retirments. Retirements mean movement, and unless Southwest gains 450 new additional jets and floods every market out there in the US and internationally, there might not be as much movement for Southwest upgrades. Please defend your views, or just stay out of it. You can't disagree with numbers, and your scheduled retirements along with a younger Airtran pilot group means stagnation without major growth. If you know of major growth coming, please share it with us.

And Delta is boring as he!!? Really? Compared to your same airplane all domestic airline currently? Now I know you are on a banned substance.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

You must also consider the possibility that in 10-20 years, the retirement age could be 70, or 75, or abolished altogether...

If the Southwest senior guys have their way, it will go to 85.

OYS

 

[Roomwithaview]

Oys

If the Southwest senior guys have their way, it will go to 85.

As was pointed out and admitted to by the resident Flight Info ALPA guru you have no one to thank but ALPA for the Age change.

Enjoy!