Southwest Upgrade

[Music]

In all fairness it is true Airtran flies to Nassau. However, is that really a big deal? You can see it from the shore on a good day. Besides we might fly international but the company doesn't pay it as international because they do not consider it international. Lets be real and tell it like it is.

Tell it like it is? C'mon are you really serious? Even the haters know that AirTran flies to AUA, MBJ, PUJ, CUN, and soon BDA. All in addition to NAS. Not to mention Supplemental charter ops to other international cities And while we only get the international override for AUA, PUJ, MBJ, and BDA, neither do most legacy carriers get it either. If you're gonna bag on the operation at least be accurate.

 

[boeing717]

Tell it like it is? C'mon are you really serious? Even the haters know that AirTran flies to AUA, MBJ, PUJ, CUN, and soon BDA. All in addition to NAS. Not to mention Supplemental charter ops to other international cities And while we only get the international override for AUA, PUJ, MBJ, and BDA, neither do most legacy carriers get it either. If you're gonna bag on the operation at least be accurate.

Good point. However, lets again be fair. If Airtran can do don't you think SWA can do it? I really do not know why we respond to this type of crap. Face it, they are better than us in many ways and that is why we are being bought.

 

[texman]

International ops can be complex overall, But half of the list a SWA has been there done that. Not a big deal. I just want to drink some good beer. So if anybody can tell me what countries have the best brew, that can be a lesson of it's own.LOL

 

[Music]

If Airtran can do don't you think SWA can do it?

Yep. Never said they couldn't. I was just setting the record straight regarding AirTran's international ops.

 

[dicko]

International ops can be complex overall, But half of the list a SWA has been there done that. Not a big deal. I just want to drink some good beer. So if anybody can tell me what countries have the best brew, that can be a lesson of it's own.LOL

Punta Cana overnight. All inclusive resort with swim up bar. Free everything

 

[boeing717]

Yep. Never said they couldn't. I was just setting the record straight regarding AirTran's international ops.

I hope we have more than that to argue about.

 

[jonjuan]

You are being very optimistic with Delta. Very few pilots are retiring before they absolutely have to. The big retirements at Delta happen between 2020 and 2030. On the crystal ball, I'm showing hitting the 50 percent mark in 2024 (this assumes the list stays the same size which it won't, it is a shrinking list). I was hired in 2008 so that's a 16 year upgrade. I wouldn't call that a fantastic career or much better than a Southwest pilot.

I thought dal was hiring and recalling furloughees. Of so, how can the list be shrinking? Also, I think I saw a post here which showed if hired in 2012, 1/2 the list would hit 65 in 2022 or 11 years at DAL and 2028 or 17 years at wn (not including the airtran guys which would extend this date a year or two). So if these facts are correct, a guy getting on at dal next year (assuming growth stasis) would be at 50% in 10 years and the same wn guy (again assuming growth stasis) hired in 2012 would hit 50% in 2028 or 16 years.
16 years versus 10 is a big delta (payrates are another story).
I'd love to be corrected if anyone has more accurate facts.

 

[Quimby]

No, we have 2000 guys scheduled to go at 65 (they all won't stay that long, the former NWA guys still have full pensions) within the next 5 years, and 4000 total within the next 10 years. Southwest and Airtran will have 2 fleet types, compared to 9 at Delta. So, when a top SWA guy leaves, 4 people move up a seat (717 Capt goes to 737 Capt, 737 FO goes to 717 Capt, 717 FO moves up to higher paying 737 FO, and SWA has to hire into the 717 FO seat). Think what happens when a 744 or 777 Capt leaves Delta? The A330 or 764 Capt moves up to whale or 777 Capt, all the way down to newhire on the MD88. Unbelievable movement, and some years coming up here there are 800 or so scheduled retirements, in one year! How am I doing? Duh, WINNING! (thanks Charlie Sheen!).

Honestly, the movement will be slower at SWA compared to the Legacies. And, I am a lot happier now, not jealous. Good luck with that SLI



OYS

We have a new General Lee.

Congratulations.

 

[On Your Six]

You are being very optimistic with Delta. Very few pilots are retiring before they absolutely have to. The big retirements at Delta happen between 2020 and 2030. On the crystal ball, I'm showing hitting the 50 percent mark in 2024 (this assumes the list stays the same size which it won't, it is a shrinking list). I was hired in 2008 so that's a 16 year upgrade. I wouldn't call that a fantastic career or much better than a Southwest pilot.

2200 pilots will be "in the zone" by this Summer, that is between 60 and 65. 2000 will hit 65 within the next few years. That means movement. It may not mean right over to the left seat in a year, but people will be jumping up aircraft types (and pay scales) from year to year at a fast pace. 4000 pilots will retire over the next 10 years total. As I stated, if each guy that retires is a widebody Captain or narrowbody Captain, that means good things.

Southwest will have a lot less scheduled retirements, and gaining the younger Airtran pilots may cause some stagnation for years. Reading about these grandiose plans to fly to Europe and Hawaii are interesting, and humorous. The SWA guys are still saying it could take MORE than 24 months to integrate the AT guys. And they plan to start Major ETOPS service soon? Right.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

We have a new General Lee.

Congratulations.

I think Lee is funny, but I am not exactly like him. I was furloughed and then flew corporate. My experience is different. I do however share his displeasure of the way certain Southwest pilots treat their soon to be "brothers" at Airtran, and I have joined in on the various topics.

OYS

 

[jonjuan]

Anyone know the mandatory airtran retirements over the next 15-20 years?

 

[boeing717]

I think Lee is funny, but I am not exactly like him. I was furloughed and then flew corporate. My experience is different. I do however share his displeasure of the way certain Southwest pilots treat their soon to be "brothers" at Airtran, and I have joined in on the various topics.

OYS

I am sure Airtran pilots feel real comfortable knowing you are on their side along with GL. What a good feeling. Please, give me a break. Are we suppose to sleep better tonight knowing this?

 

[On Your Six]

Good point. However, lets again be fair. If Airtran can do don't you think SWA can do it? I really do not know why we respond to this type of crap. Face it, they are better than us in many ways and that is why we are being bought.

This guy is not an Airtran pilot.


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

I am sure Airtran pilots feel real comfortable knowing you are on their side along with GL. What a good feeling. Please, give me a break. Are we suppose to sleep better tonight knowing this?

Again, this guy isn't an Airtran pilot at all. Wouldn't you have said "our side" instead of "their side?" Good try.


OYS

 

[boeing717]

This guy is not an Airtran pilot.


OYS

Why, because I do not agree with you and GL? Who said I was a pilot, could I be an employee with Airtran but not a pilot? It doesn't matter whether I am a pilot or just another employee, this site is not just for pilots, all employees can participate. I have just as much interest in this whether as a pilot or not. Don't I? You and some of the others including pilots are causing more head aches than we need. Anybody that agrees with you just to be accepted is a fool.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Oys

This guy is not an Airtran pilot.

And as was pointed out to me by the Flight Info faithful,
neither are you!

What is your fascination with all things SWA/AAI?

Please, do tell!

 

[boeing717]

Again, this guy isn't an Airtran pilot at all. Wouldn't you have said "our side" instead of "their side?" Good try.


OYS

You are correct if I was an Airtran pilot, however, if I am just an employee then I would be correct by saying the pilots would be glad to know that you are on their side. For someone that doesn't work for Airtran you really get worked up on this subject. Relax, you have nothing to lose. You act like you are the spoke person for Airtran.

 

[fuzzy077]

You act like you are the spoke person for Airtran.

Is that the guy who is in charge of all the spokes?

 

[hockeypilot44]

I thought dal was hiring and recalling furloughees. Of so, how can the list be shrinking? Also, I think I saw a post here which showed if hired in 2012, 1/2 the list would hit 65 in 2022 or 11 years at DAL and 2028 or 17 years at wn (not including the airtran guys which would extend this date a year or two). So if these facts are correct, a guy getting on at dal next year (assuming growth stasis) would be at 50% in 10 years and the same wn guy (again assuming growth stasis) hired in 2012 would hit 50% in 2028 or 16 years.
16 years versus 10 is a big delta (payrates are another story).
I'd love to be corrected if anyone has more accurate facts.

1/2 the list will not hit 65 by 2022. this is false. In 2022, 35 percent of the list will hit 65. 1/2 the list will hit 60 by 2024. Delta is not hiring. We hired 170 new pilots at the end of 2010. We recalled about 130 voluntary furloughed pilots. The new hires were to replace Northwest pilots that retired early due to a buy-out program.

2200 pilots will be "in the zone" by this Summer, that is between 60 and 65. 2000 will hit 65 within the next few years. That means movement. It may not mean right over to the left seat in a year, but people will be jumping up aircraft types (and pay scales) from year to year at a fast pace. 4000 pilots will retire over the next 10 years total. As I stated, if each guy that retires is a widebody Captain or narrowbody Captain, that means good things.

Southwest will have a lot less scheduled retirements, and gaining the younger Airtran pilots may cause some stagnation for years. Reading about these grandiose plans to fly to Europe and Hawaii are interesting, and humorous. The SWA guys are still saying it could take MORE than 24 months to integrate the AT guys. And they plan to start Major ETOPS service soon? Right.


OYS

Your statements are gross over-estimates. They are false. We have 820 pilots hitting 65 by the end of 2017. 820 pilots in 6 years is not very many at a company our size. You really need to look at a crystal ball.

 

[johnsonrod]

1/2 the list will not hit 65 by 2022. this is false. In 2022, 35 percent of the list will hit 65. 1/2 the list will hit 60 by 2024. Delta is not hiring. We hired 170 new pilots at the end of 2010. We recalled about 130 voluntary furloughed pilots. The new hires were to replace Northwest pilots that retired early due to a buy-out program.



Your statements are gross over-estimates. They are false. We have 820 pilots hitting 65 by the end of 2017. 820 pilots in 6 years is not very many at a company our size. You really need to look at a crystal ball.

And you have all the answers.... No way all of these pilots will last until they reach 65. Many will bug out earlier.