Southwest Upgrade

[SWA/FO]

But Southwest people don't see any value in Airtran, and that makes a lot of people on here ticked.

Tranny guys question their WINDFALL..... that makes A LOT of Southwest guys mad.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Windfall????

Are they Bankrupt? Don't they have greater career ability....instead of flying to 69 cities here in the US? Planes with RAFTS? A pilot group familiar with VNAV and Autothrottles? Good luck running with your windfall into the arbitrator....

 

[redflyer65]

I think he made a very reasonable reply and you responded with a somewhat childish insult. I've seen SWA guys get on here and say if your not SWA or AT this merger is not your business. Hello, anybody at any airline can be affected by a merger and the dynamics of what happens at any merger is everyone's business. Besides, this is not a private SWA/AT board, pretty arrogant if you think you deserve other people to but out on here.

Dan,

Your defending OYS? Wow. You gotta do what you gotta do I guess. The post you had just prior to that was pretty good, this one is a 180.

 

[redflyer65]

Windfall????

Are they Bankrupt? Don't they have greater career ability....instead of flying to 69 cities here in the US? Planes with RAFTS? A pilot group familiar with VNAV and Autothrottles? Good luck running with your windfall into the arbitrator....

Bill,

It's similiar to Delta buying Virgin and them wanting realitive seniority, with the massive gains that they would receive with the DL pilot contract.

But their company would bring so many great things to the table...

Makes no sense, sorry. The arbitor will see it all for what it is.

 

[SWA/FO]

put down the crack pipe....

Good luck running with your windfall into the arbitrator....

Can't wait. Any NORMAL person can SEE it.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Oys

Are you really comparing the World's busiest airport and the main airline there that owns 70 percent of the gates and flying to TWA in STL and USAir in BWI? TWA was dying when AA bought it and took over STL, and really never added anything to it. USAir had Metrojet based there in BWI, and that was on a dying airplane (737-200), and no other real movement or transcons. SWA built up BWI because at the time they couldn't get into DCA, and there wasn't a lot of room at IAD. Actually, your gameplan has always been avoiding larger airports and building up smaller ones like MDW, OAK, etc, and that has always been successful, so far. But now, you are trying to invade larger fortress hubs, like DEN (that had two weak airlines but now has a stronger UAL with more cash to fight) and now ATL via Airtran. Changing your businessplan is always risky, and time will tell if it will work. I can't wait to see your eventual international plans and Hawaii plans, which will really expose you to even more risky flying. But, if anyone can do it, it will be SWA and that famous culture that we all hear about but never seem to see. Your plans to become the next People's Express are coming to fruition as we speak. Good luck with that.

You are beyond hilarious. Nothing you post is even remotely based in fact. But, you think you're dialed in with the industry. You are really wasting your time as an fo slinging gear for DAL, you need to hookup with the UAL Scab Von Cordle and peddle your wears as an airline analyst. Somebody would pay good money for crap like that.

Remember Delta Shuttle?
Remeber Song?
Remember the A fund?
Remember the smokin' hot contract of 2000?
Remember when DAL was upgrading in 13 months?

You paint a picture like it's 1999. How did all that work out for DAL? UAL? NWA? USAir? AMR? . I had friends at OAL's that were cocky and obnoxious just like you who thought we were all fools for hanging our hats at dumb lil ole Southworst Trailways. That is until I upgraded and they were either furloughed or sitting reserve. Then the somber musings were so embarrassing to watch I would intentionally play off how great life at SWA is and how remarkably well things worked out. But, I won't tempt the gods of faith. It's better to be lucky than good. And, it's all about luck.

All you've got is your mouth and your lip service. You can't back it up with YEARS of success, your paycheck, your schedule, your net worth.

I can. Sorry that hurts you so much. It's obvious your career plan failed you miserably. Take solace in the fact you are not alone. Now your only satisfaction in life is to try and make yourself feel better by trolling flight info to hijack as many SWA threads as you can with baseless information about how great you want us to believe DAL is and how $hitty YOU KNOW SWA is. I'm sure you were saying the same thing about UAL when you were there.

DAL was a once great airline but they've got a long way to go to get back to the top and they're going to have to do it with the ever present threat of RJ's surrounding them everywhere like hornets from a nest. The DAL pilots let that genie out of the bottle. Good luck getting it back in.

SWA pilots were smart enough to keep the RJ's and codeshare at bay, even if it cost us money upfront. Just one more example of the intelligent negotiating skills of our stupid little podunk, non-national union.

SWA has a history of success and a history of sharing that success with it's employees. Complete with 39 straight years of profit, and never having furloughed. All the frustrated legacy pilot arrogance in the world, ain't going to change that.

So, you and Gen Lee keep posting your crap. I've seen and heard it before. You can write it as many times as you want. It's not going to change the facts. You made poor career choices, or your were unlucky in your decisions and now you are where you are and you are at the mercy of the seniority system to change your lot in life. Welcome to the bigs rookie.

Maybe someone will buy you and you can fight with every penny ALPA has for a favorable integration and maybe you can steal a captain seat that way. If not, you can always de-certify ALPA, start your own in house union, and refute the award from the arbitrator, even though you like to crow about "binding arbitration" being the end all be all! That;s working out well isn't it?

 

[redflyer65]

Owned!

 

[strobzz]

So is it really something like 19 years for the new guys?

Can`t any of you get over yourselves and just take a guess at answering the guys question!

 

[Scope out RJ's]

put down the crack pipe....



Can't wait. Any NORMAL person can SEE it.

Normal, you? After what you want your jumpseaters to do for a ride?:blush:
Guess that's why you won't be deciding then, eh sport?

 

[GuppyWN]

Can`t any of you get over yourselves and just take a guess at answering the guys question!

The new guys, if Airtran comes over, will be about #8000. With roughly 150 upgrades a year and no growth you're looking at at 26 year upgrade.

The wild card that WILL SHORTEN YOUR UPGRADE is growth. Nobody knows so even guessing is impossible.

Gup

 

[strobzz]

Thank you,a honest non-selfserveing answer.

 

[elcid]

Wow, I'm kind of embarrassed. The childish banter between people who don't even know each other is pretty over the top.

Back on subject,

To answer the upgrade question with any accuracy is nearly impossible. It obviously varies depending on when you were hired, growth, Airtran Aquisition/SLI, oil prices, etc. The facts are that in the next 10 years about 1000 SWA pilots will reach age 65. So, do the math and you can tell that, based on retirements alone (only one part of the equation) pilot X needs a certain number of retirements before he becomes pilot 3000 of 6000 (absent growth or an Airtran deal). Both will probably happen. Factor in 10 pilots per every aircraft we grow by, guess how much we grow, and you are probably close to anyone's best guess. Lot's of variables. My crystal ball says 12-15 with good behavior for a mid seniority FO. For what it's worth, to me, oil is possibly the scariest factor of all.

 

[On Your Six]

You are beyond hilarious. Nothing you post is even remotely based in fact. But, you think you're dialed in with the industry. You are really wasting your time as an fo slinging gear for DAL, you need to hookup with the UAL Scab Von Cordle and peddle your wears as an airline analyst. Somebody would pay good money for crap like that.

Remember Delta Shuttle?
Remeber Song?
Remember the A fund?
Remember the smokin' hot contract of 2000?
Remember when DAL was upgrading in 13 months?

You paint a picture like it's 1999. How did all that work out for DAL? UAL? NWA? USAir? AMR? . I had friends at OAL's that were cocky and obnoxious just like you who thought we were all fools for hanging our hats at dumb lil ole Southworst Trailways. That is until I upgraded and they were either furloughed or sitting reserve. Then the somber musings were so embarrassing to watch I would intentionally play off how great life at SWA is and how remarkably well things worked out. But, I won't tempt the gods of faith. It's better to be lucky than good. And, it's all about luck.

All you've got is your mouth and your lip service. You can't back it up with YEARS of success, your paycheck, your schedule, your net worth.

I can. Sorry that hurts you so much. It's obvious your career plan failed you miserably. Take solace in the fact you are not alone. Now your only satisfaction in life is to try and make yourself feel better by trolling flight info to hijack as many SWA threads as you can with baseless information about how great you want us to believe DAL is and how $hitty YOU KNOW SWA is. I'm sure you were saying the same thing about UAL when you were there.

DAL was a once great airline but they've got a long way to go to get back to the top and they're going to have to do it with the ever present threat of RJ's surrounding them everywhere like hornets from a nest. The DAL pilots let that genie out of the bottle. Good luck getting it back in.

SWA pilots were smart enough to keep the RJ's and codeshare at bay, even if it cost us money upfront. Just one more example of the intelligent negotiating skills of our stupid little podunk, non-national union.

SWA has a history of success and a history of sharing that success with it's employees. Complete with 39 straight years of profit, and never having furloughed. All the frustrated legacy pilot arrogance in the world, ain't going to change that.

So, you and Gen Lee keep posting your crap. I've seen and heard it before. You can write it as many times as you want. It's not going to change the facts. You made poor career choices, or your were unlucky in your decisions and now you are where you are and you are at the mercy of the seniority system to change your lot in life. Welcome to the bigs rookie.

Maybe someone will buy you and you can fight with every penny ALPA has for a favorable integration and maybe you can steal a captain seat that way. If not, you can always de-certify ALPA, start your own in house union, and refute the award from the arbitrator, even though you like to crow about "binding arbitration" being the end all be all! That;s working out well isn't it?

Thanks Capt Corndog. Sounds like you are going crazy, probably due to merger anxiety and SLI fears. Let me fill you in on many things you have wrong. I am a newbie here, but I was at United until 9-11, and have flown a variety of planes since then, so my experience level is there. I could have gone to SWA before 9-11, when it really wasn't a desireable place, having to pay for your type to fly a 737 domestically. The pay back then wasn't great either, but thanks to United and then Delta pay rates, you got yours higher.

Do you even know anything about the Delta Shuttle? It is still around, doing well on the BOS to LGA route. The other half, LGA to DCA, ran into trouble because the Amtrack Accella train is more convienent to Grand Central Station in Manhattan, so Delta put E175s on that portion. The BOS-LGA portion is flown with A319s now (I've flown it) and it does well.

From what I have heard, Song was a great product, but the plane was too big on those routes. The IFE system was great, and most DL 757s and 767s have it now. Your IFE consists of your loud mouth flight attendants that might be funny, or obnoxious. Airtran had a good XM radio system, but you will be dumping that for some reason.

The A fund is still around for the Captains I fly with (FNWA). The FDAL guys I know and my situation consists of a 13 percent DC fund that is not bad. I also contribute to my own 401K at the same time. And thanks to your senior pilots at Southwest, I will be able to work to 65 and retire later with some cash, in 20 plus years from now. And unlike you, I will be flying widebodies to Europe and Asia by then as Captain. You will still be enroute to Cleveland.

Do you really think I don't know how SWA is? I don't have friends there? Just because you don't have friends at OTHER airlines is your fault. I know you and your own SWA buddies like to sit around the fireplace and talk trash about Airtran, and then you guys start to realize how you are going to get screwed by an arbitrator, and then all start to cry together. It's sad I bet.

You are right that Delta does have a lot of RJs, but high oil will start to take care of that problem. I think the CEO said they parked 120 50 seaters in the past couple years, and obviously more to come. And you said your SWAPA negotiators were smart enough to keep RJs out. Can they keep Airtran out, and the arbitrated SLI? I.....don't......think......so. Sorry. Airtran guys will be mixed in within your current list, and they will get huge raises, and there aint one thing you can do about it.

Do you really think General Lee and I made a bad career choice? We didn't pay for our type ratings, that's for sure. He seems happy flying his International stuff, and I am very happy where I am at now. I know I will be moving up the list at a fairly fast pace when the retirements hit in force very soon, unlike your stagnation with the younger Airtran group and lack of scheduled retirements. And when our pay hits and beats yours, what will be the difference then? Our contract is up next year, and then we will use your rates as our BASELINE, and then go up from there. Then our pay, along with flying variety, will steer most of your junior guys over to us. I couldn't imagine doing what you do for 5 years, let alone 20 more. Your pay is great for now, but it won't be the highest for long.

Have fun during your binding arbitration. I look forward to your meltdown.


OYS

 

[GuppyWN]

Have fun during your binding arbitration. I look forward to your meltdown.


OYS

Could you please define "fair and equitable" for me?

Gup

 

[Roomwithaview]

lmao at that last post oys. wrong on so many points But predictable. i'll be glad to compare w-2's anytime. i was thinking delta express as well. enjoy your new e195's

 

[us1023]

You gotta hand it to OYS, he/she seems to know everything SWA is going to do, everything SWAPA is going to do, exactly how SWA pilots think, feel , eat, sleep and sh!t. I just can't figure out why he/she is so consumed with it.....

 

[On Your Six]

Could you please define "fair and equitable" for me?

Gup

The arbitrator will decide that, not me. He/she/they will look at the facts, and your lawyers will be allowed to argue them. The problem is you guys don't think Airtran brings much to the table, and the artbitrators may think otherwise. Obviously GK and the bankers think it is important. Look at what he is saying in the papers these days. I am sure ALPA will use those articles as some proof, and the arbitrators are probably reading those articles right now.

OYS

 

[On Your Six]

You gotta hand it to OYS, he/she seems to know everything SWA is going to do, everything SWAPA is going to do, exactly how SWA pilots think, feel , eat, sleep and sh!t. I just can't figure out why he/she is so consumed with it.....

Great 3rd post. Anyway, ever since I started reading the SWA posts about what they KNEW would happen to the ungreatful Airtran pilots, I knew I had to get involved. And, I don't think SWAPA will be able to do anything about the SLI, even though they have some suggestions. Where do I get my opinions about SWA and what SWAPA may or may not do? By just reading the SWA pilots' posts on FI.

OYS

 

[On Your Six]

lmao at that last post oys. wrong on so many points But predictable. i'll be glad to compare w-2's anytime. i was thinking delta express as well. enjoy your new e195's

Oh, so you made a mistake about The Delta Shuttle? That wasn't your only mistake. And it's great your W2 is big for now. Enjoy it while it lasts. And if we do get E195s, those 13 month upgrades will be back. Let's hope we get some soon!

OYS

 

[Whaler]

Great 3rd post. Anyway, ever since I started reading the SWA posts about what they KNEW would happen to the ungreatful Airtran pilots, I knew I had to get involved. And, I don't think SWAPA will be able to do anything about the SLI, even though they have some suggestions. Where do I get my opinions about SWA and what SWAPA may or may not do? By just reading the SWA pilots' posts on FI.

OYS

Cause what you are doing here on FI makes a difference in real life...